APA pull march 12,2011 Pikeville TN

[smith family kennels]

Sports Mix Legends Tour
2nd Leg

Location Pikeville, TN

Rails/Carpet

format: mwpp

Organizer: Eric Flowers

Judge: Terry Davis

Sponsor: Sports Mix Dog Food

Prize: plaques/sports mixed dog food

weight in: 8:30 am - 9:30 am

start time 10 am

Second pull an hour after first pull ends

Fee 15.00 per dog per pull. Two pulls in one day.

Address 234 Allen P Deakins Rd
Pikeville, TN 37367

From Chattanooga take I27 North to 111. From 111 take Pikeville exit. Follow 127 to Allan P Deakins Rd. On left (across from Dollar General)

[Leon]

When i lived in TN, Pikeville was a hour and a half drive, now its a ten hour drive lol.

But if enough people i know are coming, i will definitely make it. Since i moved i haven't worked the dogs at all since the last GA show, so this should be a good motivator to work the dogs, especially Czar who i almost gave up on after the GA show.

[Rock Creek Kennels]

Is this at the same place the NKC pulls use to be? I know it was across from the dollar general but thought it was Georgia Ave.

[NATE]

Terry said it was the same place and i will tell you i loved the way APA is set up everything is family based started the pull with by praying it reminded me alot of the way the what we had in the nkc club it was just nice set up and anyone with a dog of any skill has a place

[Rock Creek Kennels]

Terry said it was the same place and i will tell you i loved the way APA is set up everything is family based started the pull with by praying it reminded me alot of the way the what we had in the nkc club it was just nice set up and anyone with a dog of any skill has a place


Thats great. There's not a better place to have a pull.

[OldfortKennels]

Hey sweet, Im not working, dont really have a dog to pull but may come out and check it out!

[Rock Creek Kennels]

Hey sweet, Im not working, dont really have a dog to pull but may come out and check it out!


A little conditioning with Reb would defiently give some healthy competition!! If youre goin, you gotta take a dog to pull!

[smith family kennels]

We just went to our first apa pull here in bama and it is basically the same but it has some different rules. For those that havent pulled apa. What you really need to know is. There is One handler, No fouls, and if the cart is still moving at 60 seconds and the pull is completed it counts and you move on to the next round. Here is the link to the the website they are listed under information so yall can look over them. Some things are different.

http://weightpull.com/

[Rock Creek Kennels]

We just went to our first apa pull here in bama and it is basically the same but it has some different rules. For those that havent pulled apa. What you really need to know is. There is One handler, No fouls, and if the cart is still moving at 60 seconds and the pull is completed it counts and you move on to the next round. Here is the link to the the website they are listed under information so yall can look over them. Some things are different


We pulled a couple apa shows last year and have done several over the years. IMO, I dont like the no foul rule or the 60 second rule.

#1 a dog should never work the full 60 seconds. If one of our dogs is getting to 20+ seconds on a pull, I know theyre almost done and will typically pull them out to not risk injury. You can really ruin a dog going the full time.

I like having atleast one foul. If your dog doenst make the first pull atleast you can push them the second time to keep their confidence high.

[NATE]

yeah i under stand that wille as you bango has been a head case since we got him for eddie so the no foul thing pluss the two pulls on one day needless to say by the second pull he went two pull before he first time but on the other hand lauras little blue dog pulled more the second time out and they wernt even close to time and honstely i dont go the time as when to take my dog out i watch the dog and i know how far to take em
on a side note they said the turn and burn is gone its now a sling shot and thats a good thing i was waiting on someones dog to get hurt

[Rock Creek Kennels]

yeah i under stand that wille as you bango has been a head case since we got him for eddie so the no foul thing pluss the two pulls on one day needless to say by the second pull he went two pull before he first time but on the other hand lauras little blue dog pulled more the second time out and they wernt even close to time and honstely i dont go the time as when to take my dog out i watch the dog and i know how far to take em
on a side note they said the turn and burn is gone its now a sling shot and thats a good thing i was waiting on someones dog to get hurt


I also dont like the 2 pulls in one day. I went to one last year, did the first pull and left. There's no way Im going to max my dogs out twice in one day. We care to much about our dogs to do that to them.

"Turn & burn" isnt bad if done right. Ive seen more slingshots with front release than back release especially with "ready to go" dogs.

[Rock Creek Kennels]

and honstely i dont go the time as when to take my dog out i watch the dog and i know how far to take em


I should have clarified that every dog is different and you cant judge off time for everyone. If you have a dog that starts working when released and doesnt quit until you tell them to you can go off time. If you have a "late starter" or one that starts & stops and starts again then you have to give them a little more time. (but not to much more)

[PullDawgPits]

What do you mean by turn and burn?

Stephanie

[NATE]

oh wow um they hook there dog the dog is facing them with the clip in there hand spin around them and the dog moveing they threw the clip down passed the line dog is already moveing now and let the dog go when rogers told me bango missed body pound in NJ to a turn and burn i said a what wtf is that then we saw it in OK wow thats a sling shoot loop hole nothing more i give em props tho they found the loop hole
But like we have said a millon times each a sling shoot is nothing more than a good way to hurt your dog

[jbh38]

Turn and burn is not a slingshot

[Rock Creek Kennels]

rogers told me bango missed body pound in NJ to a turn and burn i said a what wtf is that then we saw it in OK wow thats a sling shoot loop hole nothing more i give em props tho they found the loop hole

How does a dog lose a body pound because of a "turn & burn"?

[Rock Creek Kennels]

What do you mean by turn and burn?

Stephanie


Basically just a rear release.

[NATE]

How does a dog lose a body pound because of a "turn & burn"?

no the dog that beat him was pulled that way the dog is a turn and burn dog
and she is tough dog i won't take any thing from her

[NATE]

Turn and burn is not a slingshot

Under the APA rules it is a sling shot now that was adressed in the handers meeting last weekend you say potato i say tator

[Rock Creek Kennels]

no the dog that beat him was pulled that way the dog is a turn and burn dog
and she is tough dog i won't take any thing from her


How does that effect winning or losing? Ive see people release from the back for years(Eddie always did) and I always did with Apache & Katphish. My dogs win some and lose some no matter how I release them.

[PullDawgPits]

Turn and burn is not a slingshot

Can you explain it differently? I still don't really understand.

Stephanie

[Rock Creek Kennels]

Under the APA rules it is a sling shot now that was adressed in the handers meeting last weekend you say potato i say tator


"Turn & burn" is NOT a slingshot but can be. Front release is NOT a slingshot but can be.

A slingshot is leaving to much slack in the trace line and allowing the dog to "pop" the cart out of the hole. It doesnt have to do with the style of release that you use but rather the amount of slack that you leave.

The APA should really take this into consideration, especially with the amount of dogs out there that are trained with "rear release". We typically train ours to be released either way so we can use which ever method works best for the dog.(or what each paticular organization will allow)

[Rock Creek Kennels]

Can you explain it differently? I still don't really understand.

Stephanie


My last post should explain it pretty clear. A rear release is or is not a slingshot just like a front release can be or is not a slingshot. Just depends on the amount of slack left in the trace line, not the method of release.

[NATE]

A rear release and a turn and burn aren't the same i know alot of ppl that rear release there dog with a turn and burn the dog is trained to hit the cart wide open no there no slack when the let the dog go but the dog and hander didn't even think of slowing down then YANK like you said before Willie if done right a rear release is fine but not like its being done by alot of ppl out there

AND a rear release is not against the rules in the APA

[Rock Creek Kennels]

i know alot of ppl that rear release there dog with a turn and burn the dog is trained to hit the cart wide open no there no slack when the let the dog go but the dog and hander didn't even think of slowing down then YANK like you said before Willie if done right a rear release is fine but not like its being done by alot of ppl out there


I use to pull all of my dogs that way, Andy typically pulls his dogs that way, Eddie ALWAYS pulled his dogs that way, on top of alot of others I still see using that method. The only reason I stopped is because we pulled mostly UKC this past year and their new rules made it tougher to do.


A rear release and a turn and burn aren't the same

So on a "turn & burn" do you release from the front or the rear?


with a turn and burn the dog is trained to hit the cart wide open no there no slack when the let the dog go but the dog and hander didn't even think of slowing down then YANK

For it to be considered a slingshot, there HAS to be slack. No matter how hard a dog hits it or how fast the handler "hooks & goes" will affect the "YANK" if there isnt to much slack.


Personally, I like the ones who "hook & go". Some people will stand there for 5 mins. walking up, talking, hooking their dog, talking to their dog, kissing their dog, petting their dog then finally releasing. Then their dog will stand there for 60 secs barking or wagging their tail. THEN after the 60 seconds is up they will keep trying to get their dog to pull it rather than pushing them through and SHOWING them what to do. In the meantime you have dogs on deck & handlers waiting, and waiting, and waiting. In organizations with 3 fouls this can take FOREVER. Just a pet peeve I thought I would mention. lol

[jbh38]

I guess I am guilty of whatever then, because I usually don't stop with my dogs once they are hooked either, but they are far from a slingshot. Tammy Faye doesn't usually let you stop, she is ready to go.

If you were at the ADBA in NJ, you saw me pull a dog, well, kinda, I had Tammy and Tommy (the patterdales) for the fun show and then Jimmy was pulling Loea, Jeremiah, Andy and Coach.

[NATE]

if there at an ADBA they have to rear because of the the line rule but i have saw the same thing done from the front the way they broke it down to us was your dog had to be standing sit when you let you not you and the dog run a few step and then release at the last sec
willie you got terrys number ? he can break it down for you better i am sure seeing he was the judge last weekend and will judge this pull

[NATE]

I guess I am guilty of whatever then, because I usually don't stop with my dogs once they are hooked either, but they are far from a slingshot. Tammy Faye doesn't usually let you stop, she is ready to go.

If you were at the ADBA in NJ, you saw me pull a dog, well, kinda, I had Tammy and Tommy (the patterdales) for the fun show and then Jimmy was pulling Loea, Jeremiah, Andy and Coach.

I wasn't there i let some friends take my dog and thats the last time i trust my one of my dogs in someone elses hand i sent a freightlinner and i got back a train wreck but thats beside the point

It set up to stop those who where doing it wrong now i gota get to work i wish the APA would date there rules on there web site so maybe someone else can explain it better everyone have a good day

[bruce]

I've seen what Nate is talking about at Nat. , they walk the dog all the way to the cart, hook up and the dog spins and takes off wide open while they hold the buckle and throw it in front of the line as the slack tightens, pretty much a slingshot IMO

[Rock Creek Kennels]

I've seen what Nate is talking about at Nat. , they walk the dog all the way to the cart, hook up and the dog spins and takes off wide open while they hold the buckle and throw it in front of the line as the slack tightens, pretty much a slingshot IMO


If they release all the way back at the cart (from the front or rear) then that is a slingshot. If they walk to the cart, hook, turn, walk the slack out then release (with the proper slack) then its not a slingshot. There's no way to throw the buckle in front of the line if the dog is behind it.

[smith family kennels]

thank you bruce I was going to try and explain it myself but I was getting confused and I was there lol.

And if the dog cant move it these people will usually walk like they are giong to back up behind the dog the dog turns around to follow then they take off back forward to get the dog to spin and hit it again.

[smith family kennels]

They do it from a rear release the dog faces cart then owner and dog spin and take off at the same time. I watch them do it at nats too but it wasnt very promisng there because they actually had a line to judge your slack. Now at the apa pull there was no line to judge your slack it was a imaginary line so alot more of it happened and alot more yanking on that harness happened too.

[bruce]

If they release all the way back at the cart (from the front or rear) then that is a slingshot. If they walk to the cart, hook, turn, walk the slack out then release (with the proper slack) then its not a slingshot. There's no way to throw the buckle in front of the line if the dog is behind it.

Correct but they hold the buckle while the dog is running forward then throw it on the ground in front of the line after the dog has crossed the line, I really don't know if it gives an advantage, looks to me like you would eventually hurt a good dog,But i have seen a few people using this technic in ADBA,and APA

[jbh38]

If they release all the way back at the cart (from the front or rear) then that is a slingshot. If they walk to the cart, hook, turn, walk the slack out then release (with the proper slack) then its not a slingshot. There's no way to throw the buckle in front of the line if the dog is behind it.

This is true, I release my dogs from the rear, no slack in the line, no way are they slingshot, they walk into it slowly. I don't think we are talking about the same things.

[smith family kennels]

Lets break it down like this. Ive seen the way you pull your dogs Willie and you don't do it lol. You do a basic rear release and a turn an burn is not a rear release.

[bruce]

This is true, I release my dogs from the rear, no slack in the line, no way are they slingshot, they walk into it slowly. I don't think we are talking about the same things.

We are not talking about the same thing, this takes good timing for the buckle to be able to hit the ground at the line before the dog snatches it tight, The dog starts running from the cart while the handler holds the buckle then when most of the slack is gone they throw the buckle down on the line marked on the track which justifies the buckle being in front of the line when the dog is released, Don't know if you would say its a foul or a gray area of the rules

[PullDawgPits]

LOL Now I know what turn and burn is, I have seen that too and it IS a slingshot in my opinion. Anytime a dog hits the harness hard like that I always worry about injury.

I was worried there for a minute because Tutu is the first dog that I release from the rear. Wanted to make sure I wasn't doing it.

Stephanie

[Rock Creek Kennels]

We are not talking about the same thing, this takes good timing for the buckle to be able to hit the ground at the line before the dog snatches it tight, The dog starts running from the cart while the handler holds the buckle then when most of the slack is gone they throw the buckle down on the line marked on the track which justifies the buckle being in front of the line when the dog is released, Don't know if you would say its a foul or a gray area of the rules


I guess thats why the UKC made the new rule this year. Your dogs rear legs and the buckle have to be hooked & on the ground in front of the line. Otherwise its a foul.

[Rock Creek Kennels]

LOL Now I know what turn and burn is, I have seen that too and it IS a slingshot in my opinion. Anytime a dog hits the harness hard like that I always worry about injury.

I was worried there for a minute because Tutu is the first dog that I release from the rear. Wanted to make sure I wasn't doing it.

Stephanie


"Turn & burn" is only a slingshot if to much slack is left in the line. If you "turn & burn" and there's little/no slack in the trace, its not a slingshot.

[NATE]

Correct but they hold the buckle while the dog is running forward then throw it on the ground in front of the line after the dog has crossed the line, I really don't know if it gives an advantage, looks to me like you would eventually hurt a good dog,But i have seen a few people using this technic in ADBA,and APA

Bruce thank you for putting better than i did that same dog was the one that took BP in NJ
And wille i still don't think your understanding the dog is in a a full run and yank the slack is gone OMG you got to see it trust me i didn't get it myself its wild

[pitbullgirl]

I love it when ya'll have a good debate! I learn soooo much! I watched wt pull at Nats and was wondering bout that, how they hit the end of the trace so hard. It does look like someday there will be damage done to the dog.

[pitbullgirl]

the dog is in a a full run and yank the slack is gone OMG you got to see it trust me i didn't get it myself its wild

Its like when you put a dog on the run or chain and they take off and get to the end of the chain and SNAP! it yanks them lol. With a harness and weight on it looks even harder.

[Rock Creek Kennels]

I love it when ya'll have a good debate! I learn soooo much! I watched wt pull at Nats and was wondering bout that, how they hit the end of the trace so hard. It does look like someday there will be damage done to the dog.


If that was happening the judge should have done something about it. That sounds like a slingshot.

[Rock Creek Kennels]

And wille i still don't think your understanding the dog is in a a full run and yank the slack is gone OMG you got to see it trust me i didn't get it myself its wild


I know exactly what youre talking about.

If the dog is in a "full run" and yank the "slack is gone" then thats slack getting pulled out of the line and is considered a slingshot. The judge should have given a warning.

[NATE]

Well the judge is a friend of mine and he let more then that slide and by the rules the click has to past the line before you let your dog go it thats gray part of the rule book
i
f you look at the pics the track is set up in the dirt and it wasn't dug out at all and when we talked about it after word he words was everybody pulled on the same track and i got fouls on two of the dogs pulled that way and yes there was more than one

[bruce]

There was some warnings given at Nat. and I think Troy warned some people in Fl. for it. I really don't think there is much advantage to pulling this way , The dog seemed to lose it's momentum when the weight was heavy and they reached end of slack. But it looked like it would take alot of practice to perfect this technic IMO

[NATE]

There was some warnings given at Nat. and I think Troy warned some people in Fl. for it. I really don't think there is much advantage to pulling this way , The dog seemed to lose it's momentum when the weight was heavy and they reached end of slack. But it looked like it would take alot of practice to perfect this technic IMO

Bruce there isn't an advantage to pulling a dog that way and i don't want to see a dog hurt pulling no matter who the dog is owns the .We pull cause we love these dogs and love to watch them work and i think thats true of all of us and in the long run if ppl keeping pulling with this method there going to hurt there dogs and none of us want to be there for that one .
That why we are on here to teach ppl the right way i thought

[Rock Creek Kennels]

Bruce there isn't an advantage to pulling a dog that way and i don't want to see a dog hurt pulling no matter who the dog is owns the .We pull cause we love these dogs and love to watch them work and i think thats true of all of us and in the long run if ppl keeping pulling with this method there going to hurt there dogs and none of us want to be there for that one .
That why we are on here to teach ppl the right way i thought


The ADBA should consider adopting the UKCs newly added rule for this. All 4 paws on the ground, dogs back legs and the hook have to be in front of line before release is made. If not its a foul. They also give you the chance to get "judges verification" before you release your dog. To make sure youre not about to commit a foul.

[Rock Creek Kennels]

Bruce there isn't an advantage to pulling a dog that way and i don't want to see a dog hurt pulling no matter who the dog is owns the .We pull cause we love these dogs and love to watch them work and i think thats true of all of us and in the long run if ppl keeping pulling with this method there going to hurt there dogs and none of us want to be there for that one .
That why we are on here to teach ppl the right way i thought


The only time this is an advantage is when youre on a track with a deep hole to pull out of. Otherwise its a waste and a risk of injury to the dog.

[Rock Creek Kennels]

Troy warned some people in Fl. for it.


With Troy being a UKC judge as well, hes very good at not letting people slingshot or rough handle their dogs.

[NATE]

well NJ track is in a hole thats where these ppl pulled most of the time i think

But still i can't see risking your dogs health to beat other dogs

[bruce]

Bruce there isn't an advantage to pulling a dog that way and i don't want to see a dog hurt pulling no matter who the dog is owns the .We pull cause we love these dogs and love to watch them work and i think thats true of all of us and in the long run if ppl keeping pulling with this method there going to hurt there dogs and none of us want to be there for that one .
That why we are on here to teach ppl the right way i thought

I think a dog trained like this will have a very short career, even if the dog doesn't get hurt bad, I think the dog will quit hitting so hard because of the punishment of the shock at the end of the leash, guess thats another topic though

[NATE]

With Troy being a UKC judge as well, hes very good at not letting people slingshot or rough handle their dogs.

thats something troy don't play NO SHIT never has i have saw him run ppl off at his pulls as well as other place he was just there pulling troy is a great guy but don't cross the line with him

[PullDawgPits]

Troy is my favorite wp judge. He always seems to manage to keep things legal in a quiet kind of way and without the drama that other judges seem to attract.

I like pulling when he is judging, he is always smiling but very professional.

Stephanie

[Rock Creek Kennels]

Troy is my favorite wp judge. He always seems to manage to keep things legal in a quiet kind of way and without the drama that other judges seem to attract.

I like pulling when he is judging, he is always smiling but very professional.

Stephanie


I agree 100%. Troy, Webbo, & Robert are all great judges in my opinion. I always have a good time pulling with them.

[jbh38]

The ADBA should consider adopting the UKCs newly added rule for this. All 4 paws on the ground, dogs back legs and the hook have to be in front of line before release is made. If not its a foul. They also give you the chance to get "judges verification" before you release your dog. To make sure youre not about to commit a foul.

If the ADBA starts adopting the insane UKC rules, there really will be no dogs pulling in ADBA. UKC rules are stupid, plain and simple, written by people who were tired of getting beat somewhere else....and yes, I can say that, I was the secretary of the UNWPA in the beginning, on the new rules committee and even did the first revision to the rules, before this new crap, all anyone was worried about was if we did this, then it would benefit that one....just a bunch of crap....work your dogs, pull your dogs, and who cares, you get three fouls, screw up the same way three times and shame on you. There also is no "line" in ADBA that I know of, I have never seen one, or in APA, the only place I ever pulled with a line is IWPA. The slack, the slingshot, whatever, it's all discretion on the judges part, everywhere except UKC where they want to friggin measure.

If it didn't benefit the dog, who cares, pull your dog and don't worry about everyone else.

[jbh38]

well NJ track is in a hole thats where these ppl pulled most of the time i think

But still i can't see risking your dogs health to beat other dogs

You know, you really need to stop about the NJ track if you weren't there. The track in NJ was made by Darren Sipe, same person that made 9/10's of the tracks that you pull on with APA and ADBA anymore. Oh, and Jimmy helped set up the track. It was on a 5 inch incline, same as it always is, it could use new carpet, but other than that, it is just like any other track. No hole.

[jbh38]

Also, that "dog" you keep talking about I guess is Little Kim. They have videos online, pull them up and look at how they pull, it's no different than a lot of people do.

this has turned into bashing of peopel that aren't even here to defend themselves, nothing useful other than the same stuff being said over and over. Like I said, pull your own dog, who cares what someone else does, if they beat you, then oh well, train harder.

[Rock Creek Kennels]

If the ADBA starts adopting the insane UKC rules, there really will be no dogs pulling in ADBA. UKC rules are stupid, plain and simple, written by people who were tired of getting beat somewhere else....and yes, I can say that, I was the secretary of the UNWPA in the beginning, on the new rules committee and even did the first revision to the rules, before this new crap, all anyone was worried about was if we did this, then it would benefit that one....just a bunch of crap....work your dogs, pull your dogs, and who cares, you get three fouls, screw up the same way three times and shame on you. There also is no "line" in ADBA that I know of, I have never seen one, or in APA, the only place I ever pulled with a line is IWPA. The slack, the slingshot, whatever, it's all discretion on the judges part, everywhere except UKC where they want to friggin measure.

If it didn't benefit the dog, who cares, pull your dog and don't worry about everyone else.


Ive seen "lines" at plenty of adba pulls across the country. Yes, the UKC has a lot of BS rules, but this rule is for the safety of the dogs and not for the benefit of "favoring" anyone impaticular.

[PullDawgPits]

I don't mind the "line", if it reduces slingshotting (intentional or not) then I am all for it. Some dogs will back up on their own and slingshot themselves and that makes me cringe too, but you can't make rules for the dogs just the owners LOL

Stephanie

[smith family kennels]

hey there aint no dissing the NJ track. when its tough coming out of the hole its tough coming out of the hole but he's not dissing it. One of the tracks we practice on is really in hole , literally, Nothing wrong with it. Actually kind of like it dog has to work to pull it not just walk down a flat track. And its not a bashing of anyone its a talk of what has been banned and what hasnt and what one thing is and what another is. Has nothign to do with being beat. Why are you getting so defensive over a discussion that is about what a turn n burn is. We are just talking about how dogs can get injured doing certain things we are not saying names or pointing anyone out in specifically. And lil Kim I love that Dog. I watched her pull at Nationals. So stop getting your panties in a wad. I swear people get so offensive now days over the littlest crap when its just a discussion and not a argument, fight, or bashing contest. Thats another reason why weight pull goes down hill everybody gets butt hurt over everything. Nobody called out any body No names, no dogs, no anything. Just a statement.

[Rock Creek Kennels]

Also, that "dog" you keep talking about I guess is Little Kim. They have videos online, pull them up and look at how they pull, it's no different than a lot of people do.

this has turned into bashing of peopel that aren't even here to defend themselves, nothing useful other than the same stuff being said over and over. Like I said, pull your own dog, who cares what someone else does, if they beat you, then oh well, train harder.

Im not sure who youre refering to, and really dont care. I dont think "bashing" has occured in this thread at all. We have basically been discussing something that needs to be dealt with for the safety and well being of the dogs. This rule wouldnt affect the outcome of a pull or give an advantage to a certain participant.

[smith family kennels]

Ive seen plenty of lines in the adba too

[PullDawgPits]

I agree 100%. Troy, Webbo, & Robert are all great judges in my opinion. I always have a good time pulling with them.

Can't forget Webbo and Robert! They are good too. The only judge I really ever had a problem with was this "Willie" guy. :p Naw just kidding.

Seriously, Webbo is a great judge too. I liked him in the conformation ring too:smiles:


Stephanie

[sw_df27]

okay so I'm having a pretty damn good day today so I'm gonna do this as nice as I can I have seen no bashing of anyone just a pretty damn good discussion that I'm actually enjoying and learning something new that is what this site is for and actually the only people whom have been named in this discussion are actually getting complements calm down before I break out the whip and start spanking some of you like you are in elementary school!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

[Rock Creek Kennels]

Can't forget Webbo and Robert! They are good too. The only judge I really ever had a problem with was this "Willie" guy. :p Naw just kidding.


I wont deny it! I can be a pain in the a** for sure! lol


Seriously, Webbo is a great judge too. I liked him in the conformation ring too:smiles:


Stephanie


Webbo is by far one of the most professional judges i've ever shown/pulled under. His love for the breed bypasses most in the sport. I guess thats why he's been in it over 30 yrs now.

[smith family kennels]

lmao Ive never had the experiance of webbo in the conformation ring but would love to. Webbo is a good man.

[PullDawgPits]

I liked showing under him, didn't matter if he picked your dog or not but he always has something nice to say about the dog. Even if it is just "nice ears" or something. He is a positive guy and it shows. I think we need more "positive" types around the show ring and weight pull both.

Stephanie

[bruce]

[Webbo is by far one of the most professional judges i've ever shown/pulled under. His love for the breed bypasses most in the sport. I guess thats why he's been in it over 30 yrs now.[/QUOTE]

And makes one of the meanest cheesecakes you ever wrapped your lips around

[PullDawgPits]

UM>>>>>I really like his brownies:cool:

Seriously, great cook and BOY CAN HE EAT! LMAO!

Stephanie

[sw_df27]

emmmmmm yall are making me hungry 2 of my most fav foods ;)

[Rock Creek Kennels]

[Webbo is by far one of the most professional judges i've ever shown/pulled under. His love for the breed bypasses most in the sport. I guess thats why he's been in it over 30 yrs now.

And makes one of the meanest cheesecakes you ever wrapped your lips around


Holy crap you got that right! You need to try one of his "keish's" !!


We had lunch at his house a couple weeks ago and he made one of the best roasts Ive ever tasted. He did use to own a restaurant back in the day.

[Rock Creek Kennels]

UM>>>>>I really like his brownies:cool:


Hahaha, I forgot all about that inside joke!!!!


Seriously, great cook and BOY CAN HE EAT! LMAO!

Stephanie


Ive never seen anyone that has to have their own table at Cracker Barrell just so they can fit their food!!!!

[jbh38]

Well, when you talk about everything that happened in NJ, everyone knows the dog that is being talked about, and well, let's see, we set up the track in NJ and the dog in question is a grandaughter of one of our dogs.....sorry, yes, I took it personally because things like this were said

well NJ track is in a hole thats where these ppl pulled most of the time i think

But still i can't see risking your dogs health to beat other dogs

I mean, "these people" and this is the dog that the whole thing has been about, I have seen no other dog pointed out.
Also, the NJ track wasn't in a hole, it was on an incline.

As far as UKC, I am telling you "I was there" for the discussions, and a lot of it is personal, not all about the well being of the dog. Was the dog's well being considered, of course, but was it that someone thought they saw someone have an advantage that they didn't have? Of course, you are dealing with competitive people making rules for a competitive sport, personal is always going to be there somewhere.

[smith family kennels]

ok for one nobody said anything wrong about that dog. Me and my husband both adore that dog and I already said i love that dog. Second we like the people that own that dog and didnt say anything about them the statement was made to describe what a turn and burn is. Soooo get over it. Third no body mentioned names cause thats the way it should be and not everbody knew until you NAMED them. Fourth We like the track with a hole and a hold doesnt mean the track was
in a hole sometimes it means its tough coming out of the hole. We have different thoghts on that one two apparently. I like tracks that are tough in the hole that means you knock the dogs out faster. That is good competition. Nothing wrong with a track that is hard coming out of the hole. Stop taking crap personally when nothing negitive was said we were discussing the rules and what a turn and burn is since there was a confusion. Nothing about advantage some of us are in this for the dogs not to have a pissing contest about crap. Thats why things are getting as bad as they are now.

Some of us do worry about the well beings of the dogs now some is personal but not for all of us. I will be the first to say that Lil Kim is a good dog and she beat our asses straight up. This thread has nothing to do about who wins and who doesnt we arent in this for the fame. Quit nit picking crap and get back on topic. This thread is about a apa pull and we were discussing rules and what is included in them. We are talking about what we think should and should nto be included the rules and what it is or is not if anybody is calling out anybody its you.

[bruce]

[. This thread is about a apa pull and we were discussing rules and what is included in them. We are talking about what we think should and should nto be included the rules ] Don't forget Cheesecake and Brownies:D:D:rolleyes:

[jbh38]

whatever, the discussion in places seemed like an accusation and since we were there and set up the track and pulled our dogs, I don't care really, I am going to pull the dogs the same way we always do.

[sw_df27]

Well if you don't care why keep posting in this thread? And like you said
seemed like an accusation it really is hard to know what someone attitude is like just reading someones post I don't think anyone was accusing anyone of anything or atleast the way I read it was not intended that way. As stated before lets get back on topic if you can't do it don't post again that's everyones warning from me thanks.

[Rock Creek Kennels]

Well, when you talk about everything that happened in NJ, everyone knows the dog that is being talked about, and well, let's see, we set up the track in NJ and the dog in question is a grandaughter of one of our dogs.....sorry, yes, I took it personally because things like this were said

well NJ track is in a hole thats where these ppl pulled most of the time i think

But still i can't see risking your dogs health to beat other dogs


I missed the NJ pull so I have no idea about the track. (other than what Nate, Webbo, Robert & several others that went told me) I dont think they were saying the the NJ track is a "hole" but rather was set-up on an early incline and the dogs had to pull out of a "hole". (which is where a "slingshot" would come in handy.) I do agree with not risking injury to a dog though. I dont know many people who wouldnt.

I mean, "these people" and this is the dog that the whole thing has been about, I have seen no other dog pointed out.
Also, the NJ track wasn't in a hole, it was on an incline.


There are MANY people who pull their dogs in this method. I think that paticular dog (with no name mentioned) was just used as a general example. If it does pull this way though, I would recommend changing styles to lower the chance of injury.

An inclined track(which many are) will have a tighter hole to pull out of than a level track. Its standard physics. As we all know, getting the cart moving is the hardest part.


As far as UKC, I am telling you "I was there" for the discussions, and a lot of it is personal, not all about the well being of the dog. Was the dog's well being considered, of course, but was it that someone thought they saw someone have an advantage that they didn't have? Of course, you are dealing with competitive people making rules for a competitive sport, personal is always going to be there somewhere.


I know most of it is personal, but some has to do with the well being of the dog. (just like you mentioned above.)

Honestly, the rule changes didnt put us at any disadvantage this past year. Our dogs still brought home plenty of MWPs & BPs. I'm not sure who the "advantages" of the rule changes were suppose to help.

[Rock Creek Kennels]

Well if you don't care why keep posting in this thread? And like you said
it really is hard to know what someone attitude is like just reading someones post I don't think anyone was accusing anyone of anything or atleast the way I read it was not intended that way. As stated before lets get back on topic if you can't do it don't post again that's everyones warning from me thanks.



Sorry, just saw this post. Will keep it on topic.


But, I do feel that "slingshotting" & rough handling need to be discussed & solid rules should be in place for all organizations.

[NATE]

[. This thread is about a apa pull and we were discussing rules and what is included in them. We are talking about what we think should and should nto be included the rules ] Don't forget Cheesecake and Brownies:D:D:rolleyes:

no showing dogs for at least two hours after the brownies :rolleyes:

[sw_df27]

But, I do feel that "slingshotting" & rough handling need to be discussed & solid rules should be in place for all organizations]


oh trust me as an outsider of this sport I haven't ever participated in it I do however love knowing the ins and outs of it and love good discussions about it!

[Rock Creek Kennels]

no showing dogs for at least two hours after the brownies :rolleyes:


More like 2 days! lol


oh trust me as an outsider of this sport I haven't ever participated in it I do however love knowing the ins and outs of it and love good discussions about it!


The only problem about weight pulling is that most "good discussions" will turn into "bad arguments"!! lol Guess that just goes along with the competitive nature of the sport and the participnts.

[NATE]

More like 2 days! lol

your only suppose to eat one geez willie did you eat the whole plate

[bruce]

your only suppose to eat one geez willie did you eat the whole plate

Damn Rednecks can't takem anywhere:D:D

[the flea]

BROWNIES!!!!!I loves me some brownies.

[smith family kennels]

rotflmfao OMG. I love ya'll




Damn Rednecks can't takem anywhere:D:D

You got that right lol ;)

[NATE]

BROWNIES!!!!!I loves me some brownies.

lol we know you love brownies after a few brownies didn't you wake up in about four inches of water ?:oops:

all post are historical facts and meant for educational purposes MPBP takes responsibilities for story and or views of the individuals poster LMFGDAO :whistle:

[Rock Creek Kennels]

Damn Rednecks can't takem anywhere:D:D


Especially not me! lol

[AvilesPits]

We pulled a couple apa shows last year and have done several over the years. IMO, I dont like the no foul rule or the 60 second rule.

#1 a dog should never work the full 60 seconds. If one of our dogs is getting to 20+ seconds on a pull, I know theyre almost done and will typically pull them out to not risk injury. You can really ruin a dog going the full time.

I like having atleast one foul. If your dog doenst make the first pull atleast you can push them the second time to keep their confidence high.

i respect your opinion Willie but apa does have a novice class if you dont have a no foul type of dog that way u can push through or i guess u can say train in competition atmosphere.and in regular class if you need to push your dog through u still can u just got that one foul though but a good handler should always know when to push a dog through and like a lot of shows ive been to their is always somebody asking to much to their dog when they are completely done and just stand screaming now thats in my opinion what ruins a dog and the two pulls in one day that to me mean work hard to go hard or go home and the 60 sec pull their are dogs that pull really slow in apa we all also knew a dog back in the nkc days slappy. but all this is just my opinion dont mean any disrespect to no one good day to every body and remember pull hard or go home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NATE]

i respect your opinion Willie but apa does have a novice class if you dont have a no foul type of dog that way u can push through or i guess u can say train in competition atmosphere.and in regular class if you need to push your dog through u still can u just got that one foul though but a good handler should always know when to push a dog through and like a lot of shows ive been to their is always somebody asking to much to their dog when they are completely done and just stand screaming now thats in my opinion what ruins a dog and the two pulls in one day that to me mean work hard to go hard or go home and the 60 sec pull their are dogs that pull really slow in apa we all also knew a dog back in the nkc days slappy. but all this is just my opinion dont mean any disrespect to no one good day to every body and remember pull hard or go home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

willie is like me he wants to see every dog work to there fullelst at the end of the day if you aren't in it for the dogs you need bullies and willie is one of the pullers that is a friend of mine so slow your roll and i will roll for mine

[Rock Creek Kennels]

willie is like me he wants to see every dog work to there fullelst at the end of the day if you aren't in it for the dogs you need bullies and willie is one of the pullers that is a friend of mine so slow your roll and i will roll for mine


Thanks for standing up for me on this, but Uriel is a friend of mine and I completly respect his opinion. He's defiently in it for the good of the breed and has an incredible pull dog to prove it.

[Rock Creek Kennels]

i respect your opinion Willie but apa does have a novice class if you dont have a no foul type of dog that way u can push through or i guess u can say train in competition atmosphere and in regular class if you need to push your dog through u still can u just got that one foul though but a good handler should always know when to push a dog through and like a lot of shows ive been to their is always somebody asking to much to their dog when they are completely done and just stand screaming now thats in my opinion what ruins a dog and the two pulls in one day that to me mean work hard to go hard or go home and the 60 sec pull their are dogs that pull really slow in apa we all also knew a dog back in the nkc days slappy. but all this is just my opinion dont mean any disrespect to no one good day to every body and remember pull hard or go home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I respect your opinion as well Uriel and no disrespect taken.

Another reason I like multiple fouls is incase the handler causes the foul. Just to give the dog a fair chance. I still personally feel that maxing a dog out 3 times in 2 days is to much. The 60 second rule is ok I guess, if the handler knows when enough is enough.

[AvilesPits]

all i meant is if u want to pull apa u have to train hard to keep up cause most of this shows are two pulls in one day and if u do slack u will get smoked nothing against Willie and i get your point willie i do agree on that no foul situation ive commited lots of mistakes on game time but i meant is u have to be on your A game for that reason u only get one shot. And nobody needs to slow their roll down just stating my opinion on things here willie and i are friends and like i said no disrespect just my opinion homie.

[smith family kennels]

Im going to have to ban my husband from the computer after midnight lol. I even knew that was Uriel......

[NATE]

all i meant is if u want to pull apa u have to train hard to keep up cause most of this shows are two pulls in one day and if u do slack u will get smoked nothing against Willie and i get your point willie i do agree on that no foul situation ive commited lots of mistakes on game time but i meant is u have to be on your A game for that reason u only get one shot. And nobody needs to slow their roll down just stating my opinion on things here willie and i are friends and like i said no disrespect just my opinion homie.

Yeah i need to apologize i had a few before i laid down then i couldn't sleep and i am trying to quit smokeing needless to say i have been ill but thats not excuse for me to show my ass
i am sorry Uriel

[ppits]

to me pulling two pulls in one day is really no diff then two pulls in two days u get a break between pulls and i have been to a few and didnt really see much diff in weight pulled from either show but u have to know your dogs and i learned something from eddie and take it to those pulls. and i know jbh and just about everyone else on here posting on this subject and they are in it for the well being of the dogs and been in a long time and the people i seen use the turn and burn have mastered it and i do with one of my dogs and did at the last adba show in ga and a rear release and turn in burn is no diff in my opinion cuase the dog is not hitting like it looks where with eddies dogs they slowly walked into it from a rear release and he would not let go till he knew his dog was engaging with a turn and burn as you call it they know the dog is going to go so they are holding back as well but they know there dog is going to hit fast instead of slow and with high drive dogs this works good and dont give the dog time to think about it if i can use that word and i dont think it gives any kind of advantage and alot of you was in n.c. a couple years ago when i had a dog go 58 sec on pull and he worked his but off but i knew he was done and took him out with 2 fouls left and that dog name is tank and he a turn and burn dog and u have to with him cause of his drive and he is like a kid with A.D.D. that how i can get the best out of him but not an advantage just knowing my dog and how to get most out of him and he hasnt quit on me ever but to each their own to me a dog that is rearing and ready to go there is no reason to hold them back or stand in front of them and talk to them and ask if they are ready knowing it is taking everything you have to hold them back. everybody has opinions and what they think and everybody sees different

and avilespits dont know anything him and his crappy dogs and he only mentioned slappy cause that is his dogs dad but he was a good one

so who gonna try and go to this show i like the one foul cause gets over faster but just like any organization there is politics but i go to have fun win or lose and try to learn more cause you can never know everything

and as far as me the next nkc show i do will be 2 pulls in 1 day there alot of reasons it cheaper all the way around for people traveling and organization/club putting on the pull

[AvilesPits]

if mine are crappy what does that make yours

[ppits]

crappy also i guess

[smith family kennels]

In two weeks. Probably wont make the first pull but hope to show up for the second round. Nate doesnt get off till 6:30 in the morning then he has to come home and get ready and its 3 hour drive lol. Who all plans on coming?

[Rock Creek Kennels]

In two weeks. Probably wont make the first pull but hope to show up for the second round. Nate doesnt get off till 6:30 in the morning then he has to come home and get ready and its 3 hour drive lol. Who all plans on coming?


May ride up to watch. Dont have anyone ready yet to pull.

[ppits]

hoping to be there with blaze - 53lbs mocha-31lbs and lil p-26lbs

[smith family kennels]

yeah you have to bring one for ever class mine are in dont ya j/k lol mine are actually heavy I do believe. I havent weighed them since Jan lol. in Jan diamond weighed in at 37lbs (heavy) Bango weighed in at 48lbs which is about right for him. dixie is always little she will probably weigh in at around 42 or 43 she is pulling novice though its her first pull. None of my dogs are ready but I dont care if we make it up there its to see old friends and have a good time ;)

[Rock Creek Kennels]

Had a great time! Good to see a bunch of familiar faces.

[Coldriver]

:o LIL' KIM IS BLUSHING THROUGH HER THICK CHOC. COAT RIGHT NOW :confused: WE SEE WE HAVE SOME FAN'S!

HERE, I'M GOING TO PUT THIS TO REST RIGHT NOW, MY HUSBAND HAS BEEN PULLING FOR "10" YEARS AND WE ARE "WELL" AWARE OF THE "RULES" CONSIDERING MY HUSBAND IS A *ADBA JUDGE. BUT THATS BESIDES THE POINT. AND FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS THAT MY HUSBAND HAS BEEN PULLING HE HAS "YET" TO SEE A DOG GET OR BECOME INJURED BY THE WAY WE OR ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER, START OUR/THEIR DOGS. *SO* STOP SAYING IT'S ABOUT THE SAFETY OR HEALTH OF THE DOG.

"AND" PS. NATE YOU DIDN'T LOSE BECAUSE OF THE WAY OUR DOG STARTS, YOU LOST BECAUSE OF *TRAINING* AND IT'S THE TRUTH, AND IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM -> GO HOME -> TRAIN HARDER -> AND COME BEAT US WITH A BETTER DOG! WE DON'T MAKE EXCUSES, WE JUST GO HOME AND TRAIN HARDER. AND FOR ALL THE OTHERS THAT WANT TO GO BACK AND FORTH, ARGUING IN ONE OR ANOTHER'S DEFENSE, I'M NOT HERE FOR THAT AND THIS IS AND WILL BE MY FIRST/LAST RESPONSE TO THIS POST.

"WELL, SEE EVERYONE AT THE NEXT SHOW, I'M SURE KIM IS GOING TO BE JUST AS HAPPY TO SEE YOU, AS YOU WILL BE TO SEE HER.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOiQnNJRi2U&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUAGDmPf1kU&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC8wf6yDgP0&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3dQ0L8zU8c&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

[...Sydney...]

Sounds like it was a good time. We are hoping to make it out to the KOR at the end of May (to watch we are far from APA ready) Hopefully we will see some of you there!!

[smith family kennels]

We weren't at the pull with our dog so we haven't a clue how he was pulled. We sent him up there with a friend and he didn't come back right afterward so that was a lesson learned. As far as training. We have done more than anybody would have ever done with that dog. He was screwed up when we got him and he is still screwed up now. We are actually very proud of what we have accomplished with that dog. This is a dog I had to carry into the show ring after we got him cause he wouldnt walk on concrete floors. If I can say anything to anybody it would be get your dogs as puppies and train them the way you want them dont try to fix other peoples messes or dogs that other people have psychological screwed up. Dog still has issues to this day after 3 years of training. he is closterphobic and wont go in a dog house or barrel. He still has problems with all flooring that is not grass and dirt and he still has security issues. Everyone that that personally knows Bango knows his background. The fact he pulls as hard as he does is amazing. and we have never used it as an excuse but as a accomplishment that he has made it as far as he has. I have two dogs on my yard that I was told would never pull and they do. That is a accomplishment for us and speaks for itself.

Like I said before we adore lil kim we think shes a awesome dog.


Sorry guys we didn't make this show got alot going on right now.

[Rock Creek Kennels]

:o LIL' KIM IS BLUSHING THROUGH HER THICK CHOC. COAT RIGHT NOW :confused: WE SEE WE HAVE SOME FAN'S!

HERE, I'M GOING TO PUT THIS TO REST RIGHT NOW, MY HUSBAND HAS BEEN PULLING FOR "10" YEARS AND WE ARE "WELL" AWARE OF THE "RULES" CONSIDERING MY HUSBAND IS A *ADBA JUDGE. BUT THATS BESIDES THE POINT. AND FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS THAT MY HUSBAND HAS BEEN PULLING HE HAS "YET" TO SEE A DOG GET OR BECOME INJURED BY THE WAY WE OR ANYONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER, START OUR/THEIR DOGS. *SO* STOP SAYING IT'S ABOUT THE SAFETY OR HEALTH OF THE DOG.

"AND" PS. NATE YOU DIDN'T LOSE BECAUSE OF THE WAY OUR DOG STARTS, YOU LOST BECAUSE OF *TRAINING* AND IT'S THE TRUTH, AND IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM -> GO HOME -> TRAIN HARDER -> AND COME BEAT US WITH A BETTER DOG! WE DON'T MAKE EXCUSES, WE JUST GO HOME AND TRAIN HARDER. AND FOR ALL THE OTHERS THAT WANT TO GO BACK AND FORTH, ARGUING IN ONE OR ANOTHER'S DEFENSE, I'M NOT HERE FOR THAT AND THIS IS AND WILL BE MY FIRST/LAST RESPONSE TO THIS POST.

"WELL, SEE EVERYONE AT THE NEXT SHOW, I'M SURE KIM IS GOING TO BE JUST AS HAPPY TO SEE YOU, AS YOU WILL BE TO SEE HER.


I have Never ever heard of Lil' Kim and have never ever seen her pull. Looks like a good dog though.

We've pulled dogs for 10+ years now as well and have never seen one injured while pulling, (other than a broke nail) BUT im not gonna say it can not happen. The way you guys release lil kim and the way she ease's into the weight is fine. Thats a PROPER release, she is PROPERLY trained and she will most likely not injure herself. The ones we are talking about are the dogs that SLAM the end of the trace WIDE OPEN. THIS CAN DEFIENTLY CAUSE A DOG INJURY. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see this, is just common sense.

[Rocket Scientist]

I have Never ever heard of Lil' Kim and have never ever seen her pull. Looks like a good dog though.

We've pulled dogs for 10+ years now as well and have never seen one injured while pulling, (other than a broke nail) BUT im not gonna say it can not happen. The way you guys release lil kim and the way she ease's into the weight is fine. Thats a PROPER release, she is PROPERLY trained and she will most likely not injure herself. The ones we are talking about are the dogs that SLAM the end of the trace WIDE OPEN. THIS CAN DEFIENTLY CAUSE A DOG INJURY. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see this, is just common sense.


HUMMMMMMMMMM WE GOT 2 PEOLPE SAYING THEY HAVE BIN PULLING DOGS FOR 10 YEARS AND YET NEITHER ONE OF THEM HAVE SEEN A DOG GET HURT BECAUSE OF STARTS HUMMMMMMMMM:confused: YET AT THE END OF YOUR STATMENT YOU STILL WANT TO ADD IN "THIS CAN DEFIENTLY CAUSE A DOG INJURY" LISTEN TO YOUR SELF:wah: SERIOUSLY DO YOU PEOPLE EVER STOP AND LISTEN TO THE BULL THAT IS SPILLING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH :vomitbuddy:FIRST OF ALL WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE SO CONCERNED WITH EVERYONE ELSES DOGS? WHO CARES ABOUT HOW ANYONE ELSE STARTS THERE DOGS ??WHO CARES??:idk: THIS WHOLE THING ABOUT DOGS CAN GET HURT OVER THE WAY THEY START IS A MYTH-URBAN LEGEND MADE UP BY CRYING -MENOPAUSING -COMPETITION DUCKING-SORE LOSERING-:hater: TRUST ME I KNOW THESE THINGS I AM A ROCKET SCIENTIST :bat:

[Rock Creek Kennels]

HUMMMMMMMMMM WE GOT 2 PEOLPE SAYING THEY HAVE BIN PULLING DOGS FOR 10 YEARS AND YET NEITHER ONE OF THEM HAVE SEEN A DOG GET HURT BECAUSE OF STARTS HUMMMMMMMMM:confused:


The thing about pit bulls is they typically wont show pain. We could have seen them hurt plenty of times and didnt even know it. COMMON SENSE will tell you that a dog going full speed into something thats 100x+ their body weight can injure them. THATS WHY NO REPUTABLE ORGANIZATION ALLOWS SLINGSHOTS. Its not really that hard to understand.


YET AT THE END OF YOUR STATMENT YOU STILL WANT TO ADD IN "THIS CAN DEFIENTLY CAUSE A DOG INJURY" LISTEN TO YOUR SELF:wah: SERIOUSLY DO YOU PEOPLE EVER STOP AND LISTEN TO THE BULL THAT IS SPILLING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH :vomitbuddy:


Because its true. You're just in denial.



FIRST OF ALL WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE SO CONCERNED WITH EVERYONE ELSES DOGS? WHO CARES ABOUT HOW ANYONE ELSE STARTS THERE DOGS ??WHO CARES??:idk:


As a weight pull judge myself, I dont want to see anyones dog injured. It would put a negative spotlight on the breed, owners as well as weight pulling. There's enough negative out there about our dogs, lets try not to add to it.


THIS WHOLE THING ABOUT DOGS CAN GET HURT OVER THE WAY THEY START IS A MYTH-URBAN LEGEND MADE UP BY CRYING -MENOPAUSING -COMPETITION DUCKING-SORE LOSERING-:hater: TRUST ME I KNOW THESE THINGS I AM A ROCKET SCIENTIST :bat:


Wow.

[APBTMOMMY]

Thread closed for time being! It will reopen after it is discussed with admin!!