X xxxxxxx X!

[Dansgrizz]

So tonight i was working with grizz and maverick on there IB and TB and they did good i did a VERY short session and i think they kinda got the point but kept targeting there nose into my hand to try and get treats out of me.... (i was doing two finger targeting there nose to my palm using "Grizz... NOSE(touch two fingers).... HERE(two fingers to my palm).....X!(when they achieved this)" when i see this behavior is there anything i can do do harnes this willingness to learn or are they being treat whores?

[Leon]

So as they are coming closer and closer to your hand...so you say xxxxxxxx..then when when they reach your hand say X!? Just making sure since i am doing this with Czar.

I am trying to teach Czar, outside and inside. So i stand out the door, and tap the ground and say xxxxxxxx...and when he comes out is say X! and give him a treat. Same thing for inside. But i am not sure if me tapping my hands on the ground is what he was attracted to..and not the xxxx...did i sabotage the method?

[APBTMOMMY]

I am like confused as to what yall are talking about.....can you explian it to the little blond girl please...thanks

[Leon]

We are trying out the SATS bridge and Target training. You are pretty much teaching your dogs words and things to identify these words by. Like hand...ball...spoon...their own body parts, or pretty much anything.

The bridge is the communication, and the target is whatever you want to dog to perform. The X we talk about is how we tell the dog he has completed our task. This X can be anything of your choosing, like a whistle, clicker, visual gestures or verbal bridges. I am using the verbal, and i chose "GU" as my bridge, since it was short, sharp, not used commonly in my daily speech, and it is hard sounding. You should avoid soft sounding things like SI, M, YES..etc. Instead use, GU, DU, KI, X!..etc.

You first have to establish the bridge with your dog, this makes sense, because the dog is not going to do anything without you communicating. There are two kinds of bridges, terminal and intermediate. Terminal is to tell the dog he has successfully completed the task, and intermediate is to tell the dog is he progressing towards the task. You use the same X for both, but intermediate bridge is a stream of X'S...so if you tell the dog come here...and he is starting to come towards you...you go xxxxxxxxx...and as soon as he gets to where ever you want him to go..you say X! and give him a treat or a pet.

You can use this method to teach them anything. I am just starting out, you should join our SATS bridge and target group on the forum. Julie and DeidreM, are professionals on this technique, and i am soo glad they are in this forum.

[Phedra]

Hmm I am too drunk for that one. Video lol??

[Dansgrizz]

as colonel sanders said "im too drunk, to taste this chicken"

[George Bailey]

Hi Phedra,

I am attempting to share this method of training here on MPBP because owners of our breed need all the tools they can get. If you are interested, Kayce Cover has two books available through her website, either spiral bound or download-able to your computer. They are quite reasonably priced. There are videos on the website, as well as free information for teaching the foundation skills of bridges and targets.

Glad you are reading, when I first heard about it, I was amazed at all I had missed out on.

Julie K

[Dansgrizz]

We appreciate all yours and deidres help julie! How many pages is kayces manual?

[George Bailey]

It's 95 pages and is self published at this point, Dan.

Julie K

[Dansgrizz]

oh man piece a cake I'll have to pick that up I'm sure it'll give me a deeper understanding of sats. Thanks julie!!

[George Bailey]

So tonight i was working with grizz and maverick on there IB and TB and they did good i did a VERY short session and i think they kinda got the point but kept targeting there nose into my hand to try and get treats out of me.... (i was doing two finger targeting there nose to my palm using "Grizz... NOSE(touch two fingers).... HERE(two fingers to my palm).....X!(when they achieved this)" when i see this behavior is there anything i can do do harnes this willingness to learn or are they being treat whores?

Here is where you would use your intermediate bridge to gain duration on that touch. Even if you only get to a partial cycle (XxxX), you can build on that the next trail.

I've experienced the treat whore thing, Dan, and I believe I created it while at the same time negating my dog's cognitive skills. I call it blackmail for food. One of the main assets to using SATS is that behavior is not dependent upon reinforcers which may cause over-excitement or act as an interrupt.

Julie K

[George Bailey]

So as they are coming closer and closer to your hand...so you say xxxxxxxx..then when when they reach your hand say X!? Just making sure since i am doing this with Czar.

I am trying to teach Czar, outside and inside. So i stand out the door, and tap the ground and say xxxxxxxx...and when he comes out is say X! and give him a treat. Same thing for inside. But i am not sure if me tapping my hands on the ground is what he was attracted to..and not the xxxx...did i sabotage the method?

Hi Leon,

I don't think you sabataged the method, but you need to teach the targets next. You (and many other people) got stuck on conditioning the bridges for two days; when they truly only take a few moments to teach, as do the targets. Read the files, teach all three targets, and you will see how to use a target for recall, and support/encourage your dogs efforts.

You can define inside and outside by naming them, perhaps demonstrate them yourself for the dog, then ask the dog to show you, while again using your bridges for support. This is, BTW, a good example of how to teach in pairs, good job! Other beginning behavior pairs might include come and go, loose and tight leash, feet up and feet on floor, push and pull.

Julie K

[Leon]

Thanks julie, i will try it out and keep you updated.

[DeidreM]

Thanks julie, i will try it out and keep you updated.
I'll be able to help with some of the questions and understanding of this method tomorrow Monday. Stay tuned. xxx Deidre

[DeidreM]

I'll be able to help with questions tomorrow Monday. Stay tuned. xxx Deidre

[Dansgrizz]

Omg!! More to come from deidre... Sitting on the edge of my seat this long is gonna make my back hurt LOL ;) can't wait deidre!!

[Leon]

Czar is making good progress. He knows inside outside, i figured this would be good to teach, because i figured since he is still going though the house breaking process, he should know he can go outside, but not inside.

I also tried the little exercise Julie suggested with trying to identify objects. He caught on pretty well, i used a tennis ball and a bag clip. He identified successfully the objects. I am going to work on this some more.

I am still unclear about one thing. Letting them know something is unacceptable.

Like if he is chewing on a shoe, and i dont want him to...how do i tell him chewing on a shoe is a no no. I mean right now i take away the shoe, and give a toy to chew. But it seems like, he will think that it is ok to chew the toy and the shoe, or eventually will he get it that he can only chew the toy?

Ok even if i used SATS to identify a shoe, how do i communicate "no chewing shoes" to him?

[George Bailey]

Leon,

What you are asking falls under management--- you must provide your pup with a safe environment. If you cannot watch him like a hawk, put him in a crate or an x-pen until you can devote 100% attention to him. Put shoes and other objects away and out of his reach. Don't draw negative attention to him if he's gnawing your shorts, because that will make them more desirable. Down play the negatives and provide a real bone, a nylabone, etc., and steal and covet those if he gets bored with them as well as admire him for appropriate chewing. If you punish for chewing, you stand the chance of either scaring him or him becoming defensive about objects-- 'I'll go hide and chew it'.

I teach obedience and can tell you people have a hard time with their dogs learning appropriate use of their mouth because they have inhibited their dogs as pups. Their mouth is one of their main tools.
Sometimes pups the age of yours have really sore gums and get cranky. I name all their mouth parts and see if a gum massage helps them. If it's that he's exploring with his mouth, find things he can do that with and start teaching the beginning steps of a retrieve, mouth open, mouth closed, mouth on, hold, pull, etc.

Good job on the SATS work--- naming is just great, keep it up; it will help your pup enormously in fear periods, trips to the vet, life in general. I love your attitude and how you are applying it to real life because I've seen many people treat it like a parlor trick-- it's not, we can teach animals much more than traditional methods give them credit for being capable of learning.

Julie K

[Leon]

Like you suggested to me in chat a while ago, i do my best to downplay any bad behavior. As for chewing, perhaps its unrealistic for me to expect him to stop chewing on things completely since he is still a puppy.

I understand you downplay the negatives and give him something you want him to chew, like a bone. But how does he get the message that doing whatever he did is not acceptable...because all you did was replace his bad behavior with something else to focus his attention on.

So your saying, he does not need to know its unacceptable, and that train him to not find those things you don't want him to do boring or unattractive compared to his toys or bones?

[George Bailey]

Dogs are pure creatures, there is no bad behavior where they are concerned, they follow their impulses. Right now, he needs to be protected from his, just like you would a toddler. I can only tell you when I have a pup or even a new adult dog from the kennel, I have to change my behavior and go back to micromanaging the environment. It's less what's unacceptable and more what is acceptable; if you teach this, they will comply. Likewise, it is much easier to teach the acceptable to start out with than to have to fix that which is not.

Julie K

[Dansgrizz]

Dogs are pure creatures, there is no bad behavior where they are concerned, they follow their impulses. Right now, he needs to be protected from his, just like you would a toddler. I can only tell you when I have a pup or even a new adult dog from the kennel, I have to change my behavior and go back to micromanaging the environment. It's less what's unacceptable and more what is acceptable; if you teach this, they will comply. Likewise, it is much easier to teach the acceptable to start out with than to have to fix that which is not.

Julie K

It is an awesome bit of info there julie and it think thats so true, it seems those people who have owned dogs forever have awesome dogs cuz they know how that dog should act and put it in the right enviroment to do so. where as the new owner is more involved in how do i stop this bad behavior, not how do i nurture good behaviors from the start, they dont seem to provide the right enviroment for the dogs. whenever i see a dog with my shoe i know its not the dogs fault, its mine for leaving it out. since the dog wants to chew though i give him a bone and take back my shoe but i never reprimand him.

[DeidreM]

It is an awesome bit of info there julie and it think thats so true, it seems those people who have owned dogs forever have awesome dogs cuz they know how that dog should act and put it in the right enviroment to do so. where as the new owner is more involved in how do i stop this bad behavior, not how do i nurture good behaviors from the start, they dont seem to provide the right enviroment for the dogs. whenever i see a dog with my shoe i know its not the dogs fault, its mine for leaving it out. since the dog wants to chew though i give him a bone and take back my shoe but i never reprimand him.
Dan,
An animal can learn about what you find acceptable such as finding or bringing you your shoe or chowing down on it. If you name the shoe then you can define the behaviors you want associated with it.

[Dansgrizz]

aw thank you so much deidre!!

[DeidreM]

So tonight i was working with grizz and maverick on there IB and TB and they did good i did a VERY short session and i think they kinda got the point but kept targeting there nose into my hand to try and get treats out of me.... (i was doing two finger targeting there nose to my palm using "Grizz... NOSE(touch two fingers).... HERE(two fingers to my palm).....X!(when they achieved this)" when i see this behavior is there anything i can do do harnes this willingness to learn or are they being treat whores?
Dan
To add to what Julie had to say yesterday, move on to targeting things other than your two finger target, or, use your two finger target to have your animals target other of their body parts to your hand. Also you can change the distance and direction of your two finger target as well as work on building duration.
My last dog used to bop me in the nose as if I were a food dispenser after we first "conditioned" the bridges and after we moved on to targeting. I must have asked her to touch my nose with her nose then hold on that. Well, like I said, I guess she briefly felt that was the magic button until I got my act together and we moved on to other things.
Naming and explaining should be going on simultaneous to all you are doing. A crisp "X" for everything you want to direct your dog's attention to is good. Having your animal then target what you have just named "door knob, X" is the way to go.
Think about the things you do in partnership with your dog and name those things whether they be actions, specific objects or things going on in the environment or even states of being. You can use your ib to indicate speed, slow or fast, distance ... issuing the stream of ibs faster and faster as your animal approaches an end goal. This last note is for Leon.

All, don't forget to do the basic training of the target heirarchies which Julie already referred to in an earlier post.

[DeidreM]

So tonight i was working with grizz and maverick on there IB and TB and they did good i did a VERY short session and i think they kinda got the point but kept targeting there nose into my hand to try and get treats out of me.... (i was doing two finger targeting there nose to my palm using "Grizz... NOSE(touch two fingers).... HERE(two fingers to my palm).....X!(when they achieved this)" when i see this behavior is there anything i can do do harnes this willingness to learn or are they being treat whores?
Dan
To add to what Julie had to say yesterday, move on to targeting things other than your two finger target, or, use your two finger target to have your animals target other of their body parts to your hand. Also you can change the distance and direction of your two finger target as well as work on building duration.
My last dog used to bop me in the nose as if I were a food dispenser after we first "conditioned" the bridges and after we moved on to targeting. I must have asked her to touch my nose with her nose then hold on that. Well, like I said, I guess she briefly felt that was the magic button until I got my act together and we moved on to other things.
Naming and explaining should be going on simultaneous to all you are doing. A crisp "X" for everything you want to direct your dog's attention to is good. Having your animal then target what you have just named "door knob, X" is the way to go.
Think about the things you do in partnership with your dog and name those things whether they be actions, specific objects or things going on in the environment or even states of being. You can use your ib to indicate speed, slow or fast, distance ... issuing the stream of ibs faster and faster as your animal approaches an end goal. This last note is for Leon.

All, don't forget to do the basic training of the target heirarchies which Julie already referred to in an earlier post.

[DeidreM]

Omg!! More to come from deidre... Sitting on the edge of my seat this long is gonna make my back hurt LOL ;) can't wait deidre!!

You goof! Sorry for the repeat posts. Like I've said before, it's not easy navigating this site with a screen reader.

[Dansgrizz]

I'm sure it's not. It has alot of extras and can be complicated I appreciate you helping us though even though it's difficult. It says alot about your character.

[Leon]

Thanks Dre, that was great help.

[DeidreM]

Leon: Czar is making good progress. He knows inside outside, i figured this would be good to teach, because i figured since he is still going through the house breaking process, he should know he can go outside, but not inside.

Deidre: A rule of thumb in dealing with puppies is that they need to be supervised when out of a crate. In fact, has your pup been crate trained?
You need to be the number 1 influence on your dog for the purpose of teaching house manners and all kinds of other manners that will make him a pleasure to live with in the day to day.
Take your dog out to relieve on a leash to prevent accidents before you get out the door or make sure that you have a run way to that door. Name the process of going out to relieve. You could designate a spot in the yard and take your pup there. Bridge as your dog circles and big X dog pees or poops. Pee is "pee" and "poop" is whatever you want to call it. The process of going out to relieve or the purpose of the outing can be called "get busy" or "do your stuff."
As will likely come up later as the pup gets older, if left to his own devices now, your dog might well be taking you around the block and up the road to find a great spot to relieve if you do not define the rules of the game now. if you have a big yard fine but if you lived in an apt complex for instance, you'd want to get the business out of the way quickly, and designating a specific spot for the dog to relieve in is truly time and hassle saving.
I'm sure that you've noticed by now that pups need to relieve themselves a whole lot. You can restrict water and control some amount of relieving by putting your dog on a feeding and watering scchedule. Sorry, I can't remember how old your dog is right now so I don't know what is appropriate for his age.

Leon: I am still unclear about one thing. Letting them know something is unacceptable. Like if he is chewing on a shoe, and i dont want him to...how do i tell him chewing on a shoe is a no no. I mean right now i take away the shoe, and give a toy to chew. But it seems like, he will think that it is ok to chew the toy and the shoe, or eventually will he get it that he can only chew the toy?

Deidre: There's no point in losing the leg of your furniture or your couch cushions by waiting for the pup to have a light bulb moment! You need to watch your pup and tell him the shoes are yours and the toys are his. Take them away, don't leave them out, make a pile of things that are his and one that is yours if you want to play that kind of object recognition game! Bottom line though is to not leave your pups getting into things up to chance!

Leon: Ok even if i used SATS to identify a shoe, how do i communicate "no chewing shoes" to him?

Deidre: Throttle the little bugger. No,just kidding, he's not sure what's what yet. Keep your pup on leash until he does indeed learn what the rules of the house are. Of course pups are chewers. He will learn in time that there are things off limits and others he can have. There is power in naming, don't doubt that. And, yes, work on retrieving games or scent games or something to build focus on other activities. Pups are good in following a human's lead so give the pup something to engage with, such as YOU, LEON!
Dogs are very sophistocated creatures whether or not they be puppies. You are the single most important human influence in this pups life right now. Go ahead and think long term about the kind of things you will do with this dog in life and let that influence what you teach in the day to day. For now, you sure are dealing with some basic needs but I've started targeting and naming and recalls with a 7 week old and within 3 months of age that pup knew my signals real well. I kept the focus on me and what was going on all around us. We investigated the world together, not willy nilly. Your dog needs to learn some self control now and not suddenly be expected to control his many wonderful impulses some months down the line. It's a breeze to influence behavior At a young age because the pups learn so so fast. It's a joy, consider yourself lucky to be there at this stage of the dog's life, though, hmmm, I know, it's work.

I'm sorry if this is all too obvious.

[Dansgrizz]

Awesome training post deidre!!! Awesome!!

[DeidreM]

Leon
Earlier I meant to write that if your pup is on a feeding schedule it will be easier to know what went in and what needs to come out. I didn't mean that you should stop feeding your pup! Don't be surprised either if a pup goes out relieves, then 5 minutes later, has an accident in the house. Your dogs accidents become your own! As the pup grows, and you need to leave him alone for prolonged periods of time, you can restrict water or plan feeding around when you will be available to get the pup out. Movement and added exercise sure pushes things out quickly.
As a kid I used to think that dogs were born smart and evolved into whatever they were going to be without any need for guidance or intervention. Occasionally I've encountered a dog that took it's cues expertly from the human without any conscious training on the part of the human. When I walk out on the street everyday, all the out of control dogs with clueless owners at one end of the leash sure has proved that untrue. Also working guide dogs has led me to see the extremely high level of partnership possible with a dog, whether it be working or hanging around. Even in the hanging around, we don't tune out to each other!

Deidre

[DeidreM]

It was shoes we were talking about! Leon, have you made your separate piles yet? Julie, have you any good exercises to suggest?
I'm out of here for the day.

[Leon]

Great help Deidre.

He is being crated right now, and i do try to control the timing of when i feed him so i can be home if he needs to go really bad.

I use "poop" and "pee" for when he does it. But he does not always pee when i tell him to, he does it sometimes before i say pee...like on the apartment stairs. I need to correct that, but i think he does not like to climb down stairs, so he just sits down and pees. I will try to carry him down till he has mastered the stairs.

I just use the word "outside" for any out door activity...i think i need to make that more specific, for when we go out to play or when he goes out to potty.

currently i am also working on keeping him calm during feeding time, he gets really exited when i put food. So i tell him SIT..then STAY...and put the food down in front of him..make him stay a couple of seconds, before he can eat. If he is not calm i take away the food and give it back when he sits back down. Is this method ok?

[Dansgrizz]

Do you name his excitement leon? And the opposite of it his calm?

[Leon]

No i did not name his excitement...when ever he gets exited i just make him sit and stay. I don't know how to name his excitement since he gets exited for a lot of things...what do you do?