wtf? does she look under weight to you guys?

[RileyRoo]

I was told I am starving my dog on another forum. does she look under weight? I don't see it! I know her action shots make her look boney but this dog is FAR from boney imho.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q56/maymays1_2006/5-1.jpg

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q56/maymays1_2006/4-2.jpg

and all started because I posted a photo of her twisting to turn running at a ball. you could see her ribs from the shadowing of the photo due to the time of day. it caught alot of shadowing which we know that photos lie sometimes, but hey you can see her nice arm/butt muscles and if you look closer you can see veins lol. EWW

here is the said photo:
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q56/maymays1_2006/3-4.jpg

and another one from today
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q56/maymays1_2006/2-6.jpg

so my question is why would you call a dog under weight if it is at its normal weight and has muscle deffinition, no hip, shoulder or back bone showing? Just a few ribs. do YOU guys think I should up her to 2 1/2lbs of raw a day? and do YOU guys think she is under weight?
She is staying at 43lbs on the raw and has been this weight for months now even after the switch.

[Leon]

No, she looks good. I would keep her at this weight, it seems like she has no issues working or playing under this weight.

[MCS]

Looks good to me, ribs are ok to show, many breed stds not including the apbt call for some rib to show, like in sight hounds.

I heard that if hip bones show, then that is a sign they are on the thin side.

[green machine]

no shes not under weight IMHO

[Marty]

The dog looks good to me ;)

[Peanutsmommy]

the photo in question looks like bubs in my signature. i don't think he is under weight so i defintely dont think Riley is. I love a lean muscular dog though

[Blue]

feed that skinny dog wtf is wrong with you. no im kidding looks in shape to me not skinny at all

[infinity]

http://mypitbullpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3880

[Dansgrizz]

If you were to ask me "should i keep riley at this weight all the time?" id say FUCK NO. Alot of folks keeep their dogs in a sort of "perma-keep". Alot of stress on the dogs IMO. I trim and slim for pulls to dial in their weight to strenght ratio so they can have the most advantage. This is not done with the food bowl though, they get over 30oz of raw food a day when working hard. You will see many dogs at dog shows that LOOK to be in tip top condition, much like the dog Kevin posted a link to, BUT it will run back n forth in the show ring and be EXHAUSTED... because it is malnourished, NOT in shape. I want to ask you what is the purpose of riley being in that condition? Dock dogs? sounds like a good way to have a dog sink like a rock lol. Muscle and bones doesnt float. If youve ever read a keep that involves much swimming they cut it out during the last phases of the keep partly because the dog sinks like a rock, its harder to regulate weight when the dog ingests water while swimming, etc etc etc... many reasons why actually but thats more technical. Its not so much the amount you are working her, as much its the amount your not feeding her. Give her some more food, there is no REASON for her to have no fat on her.

JMO.

[APBTMOMMY]

Thanks for your response Dan. You said what I wanted to say and more. Good strong valid points!

[Stevechaos13]

Bro your dog looks fine.its the hottest part of the year . I live down here in san antonio tx and i dont see any fat dogs anywhere unless they are inside dogs. Hell my dogs wont even eat when its hot and we have been near 100 every day for the past two weeks. Keep them cooler during the hot part of the day and they will eat better later:)

[roe1880]

She looks awesome... hey noticed that you posted that you feed her 2 1/2 lbs of raw per day at 43 (i think)... how is she so lean...lol... i have a male thats 45 & only feed him 1lb per day and he is looking great... Dan does have good points... during showtimes or before (pre-keep) i will keep same feed schedule & more work then start to up the work & feed after the 2nd week, but on a norm at 45lbs all he gets is 1lb per day... My big blue mae is 65lbs during show times & he only eats 1lb 9oz....lol... she looks awesome though so keep up the good work...

[Dansgrizz]

If your feeding her 2.5lbs if raw per day, your not feeding a balanced diet. That's 40 oz of food a day, double wut a dog her size should get. She should be putting on weight eating that much. I don't buy it. You know a lb is 16oz right?

What does your complete raw diet consist of?

[RileyRoo]

So I am going to up her food more and try to do the crating all day thing again and see if I can get it to work (first time failed) I don't see any way to calm such a high energy dog down other then play with her like I have been. and no, I havent conditioned her hell She wont even flirt right now (dirt is too hot), she cant springpole (took it down again until we move) no handwalks (after saturday nights scare of her inches away from snagging a boxer/mix? that was off leash It reminded me WHY I dont do handwalks often) so i am left with fetch and we do that everyday when i go out there to clean the junk yard from hell! well.. besides fri-sun when we stay inside and cuddle on the couch watching tv together. So i am going to up her intake and try to only let her out to potty and maybe 20mins in the run early in the morning then back inside. I just hope she doesnt start chewing things again out of frustration and being pent up. -.-
any other suggestions?

[Dansgrizz]

Satin balls.....It packs on the pounds. Look them up.

What's your raw diet consist of now?

[CASH]

Wearing her down mentally will be far more effective then tryign to wear her down physically. You can change the hand walk in to a walking activity by changing pace, direction, and lots of starts ans stops. The puzzle toys like buster cubes are also helpfull come feeding time.

[...Sydney...]

I am having a hard time keeping weight on my male puppy right now, as he is quite the energetic one. He will literally run laps around and around the house for the hell of it. He is currently 38lbs and is 7 months old, and almost 19"...He is eating 3 cups of food a day right now. What I have been doing with him is not necessarily keeping him crated cause that is miserable for him, but like someone else said trying to keep him more mentally stimulated.

How tall is Riley? I ask cause she looks tall like Sydney, 20", and Sydney at "show weight" is 48lbs and then during winter she stays around 52-53lbs. A good comfortable weight for her is around 50lbs. I will admit when she was younger I had a hard time keeping weight on her on a raw diet. I recommend like Dan said Satin Balls, or I used to add a little brown rice that I boiled in a little chicken broth to her food. This helped. Like he said it is also possible that your diet is lacking somewhere. What are you feeding? Because 2 1/2lbs is a ridiculous amount of food...

If she is 43lbs she should be eating anywhere from 2-3% of her IDEAL body weight each day to maintain weight.

If that weight was 43lbs that would be 13.76oz-20.64oz
If that ideal weight was 50lbs that would be 16oz-24oz (1lb-1 1/2lbs)
If that ideal weight was 100lbs that would be 32oz-48oz (2lbs-2 1/2lbs)




She looks really good here back in April, no spine showing:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_WyANkpbGQnE/TGPmp8pR8mI/AAAAAAAAKIQ/jeequ8Ue_3c/s800/2mwcylk.jpg

She looks very skinny in these pictures...

Taken on 6/15:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_WyANkpbGQnE/TGPm60hkFEI/AAAAAAAAKIg/dQIW8hFttn4/s800/6-15.jpg

Taken on 7/4:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_WyANkpbGQnE/TGPlNFxwBwI/AAAAAAAAKIA/HGLwAtmPEd4/s800/rr-5.jpg


This was Sydney at 12 months and 48lbs.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_WyANkpbGQnE/TGPia1YT1vI/AAAAAAAAKHo/yBnpeRegCps/s800/Photo%20Journe-Sydney%20020.jpg


If she gets sick it could be so hard for her to recover from that situation...Sydney got sick, terrible diarrhea and vomiting, from eating too many acorns, the shells tore up her stomach and created a very bad bacterial imbalance, when we visited Florida a little over a year and a half ago she lost a lot of weight very fast from being sick, and it took me a little while to get the weight back on her...

Skinny Sydney @ 23months probably about 44-45lbs...
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_WyANkpbGQnE/SePaWfhzlxI/AAAAAAAAEDg/i3aYYsWa5Gc/s800/DSC_0019.JPG

Can you imagine what could have happened if I kept her at that weight and then she got sick?

This is Sydney at 50lbs...
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_WyANkpbGQnE/S_hZgNG9IYI/AAAAAAAAJFE/lbWLkSSpCls/s800/Arson%20and%20Sydney%20009.jpg

I dunno I guess my point is she could stand to gain some weight (honestly I wish you had some better pictures) if there is no reason for her to be at that weight...body fat is important for her heart and so many other reasons...she is still young and growing. I enjoy looking at a nice "conditioned" dog just as much as the next person, but there is a difference between skinny and conditioned.

[Michele]

Here's a recipe for satin balls:

Satin Balls: Homemade dog treat recipes like this is one can really help in putting weight on an animal quickly, as some use it for putting a couple extra pounds on a show animal prior to the big day, or an animal that may have been ill and needs a weight gain program. It has also been reported that these homemade dog treat recipes will help with some forms of hair loss, such as when your dog(s) blow their coat, to keep the coat healthy and shiny. This recipe is intended to be fed raw.

10 lbs hamburger meat
1 jar wheat germ
1 large box of oatmeal
(uncooked)
1 1/4 Cup vegetable oil
10 eggs
10 small package of flavorless gelatin
1 1/4 Cup flavorless molasses
A pinch of salt
1 large box Total cereal (2 lb)

(You may also add a pinch of garlic powder to add flavor)

Mix all ingredients together well, much like a meat-loaf, then put into separate freezer bags and freeze, thawing out as needed. It puts weight on in a very short time, not to mention the gloss in their coat. You can use it every day when they have a show to do and it does not produce diarrhea. It can be fed alone or with kibble.

[sw_df27]

Well since your asking here's my opinion I have noticed over the last few pic threads you have posted she has been getting skinnier and skinnier or it could just be the angle of the pictures but I doubt it. She could stand to put on a few more pounds. Like some others have said it's not all that healthy for a non working dog. And satin balls help alot also I use to feed rice to our dogs that couldn't put on weight. also wanted to add none of my dogs ribs show and are not conditioned they haven't been worked in so long and that's my fault but I don't compete with them either so it's more personal preference for me to keep weight on them.

[roe1880]

Satin balls are great.... for sure you should try it... What is your actual feeding regime? what are you feeding her...?? I feel pups should be pups so i like my pups to have body weight on them... i tend not to show pups cause i dont like them in show condition when they are that young... i wait to show a dog at around 1-1 1/2 years old... thats when i start the conditioning... before that age its all fun stuff to build muscle like very light ball playing, flirt pole & general tom foolery stuff...

How is her feces? does she crap allot? that is a large amount of food for her weight.... i understand a fast metabolism and high strung dog but DAMN...lol...

[smith family kennels]

I have had dogs that have done this and have struggled with weight before while trying to condition my dogs. a change and tweak in diet usually helped this and to make sure that the dogs was staying hydrated better to meet the exercise I was throwing at my dog.

I personally didnt do well with raw I was struggling with the same results as you butttt I never studied raw like Dan and them have done and really put in the whole thought process so they can probably help you with your raw diet ingredints and servings to make it balance out and work for you.

Now I have to say I do have dogs that spine show even well conditioned and proper diet and etc and they usually tend to be my lanky dogs lol. but your not doing a type of sport that requires this and almost everyone that sets their dogs up to look like this never keeps them that way long its mostly just for a few shows and so forth because with no body fat and etc and your dog gets sick or picks something up it can be bad.

since you are not really conditioning her I would definetly look into her diet a little bit. And if she is going to be doing Dock Dogs she is going to need alittle body fat plus all dogs need alittle body fat. I have one hear right now that is alot like yours. She has almost no body fat and is always that way. She is crated in the house with no exercise right now and she wont gain the weight. Some dogs are like this and a change in diet usually helps. Every dog that I have had a problem with was lacking fat or carbs in their diet they were burning it and proteins (which builds muscle) off before I could get it on. Everydog is different and adjusting their diets is one of those things you gotta play with to get it right

I can tell you right now since Im not getting ready for any shows right now my dogs are over weight except the one. Havent even worked on conditioning or anything and since im not exericising them regularly right now and they are all locked in the house because of the heat they are packing on the lbs.

[SMThe]

After reading this thread I guess I shd post pics of my 2 to find out if y'all think they're underconditioned (my guess is, the answer is "yes"). PErsonally (and this is a lay person's opinion) Riley looks really impressive - love the muscle definition.

[SMThe]

Damn, after looking at Kevin's link and reading Dan's post, I realize I know NUTHIN' about this ! Well, at least my horses look healthy ;)

[RileyRoo]

(sorry for the crappy photos my good camera needs batteries) I don't know if I told anyone but Spazz had allergies to the TOTW bison (what Riley was on before and did great on) so we switched them to Pacific stream. she honestly looked good for a little while and then I noticed weight loss in early July but thought it was the heat so I upped the amount and was feeding almost 4 cups a day with her and nothing changed (she was 42lbs and normally she is 45.5 to 46.0lbs). I finally decided to switch to raw because she wasnt doing good on the pacific stream and yes I noticed she looked skinny but I didn't think it was anything but the heat and just upped it like an idiot insted of just switching when I seen the change. well before I was thinking if she didn't gain or show any change on the raw I would put her on totw bison again(which I highly doubt) or Orijen and take her into the vets for a stool sample and blood work but I weighed her at 43.2lbs today so this was from the pacific stream food I am almost 100% on that but why she would lose so much weight on it is confusing. she does seem to be looking abit better today I noticed and imo. I can still see some spine in her standing up flexed photo but that may take awhile to fix.

[Saturday night I switched to raw so it was recent for those who asked why she's so lean.]

(today)
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q56/maymays1_2006/2-8.jpg


http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q56/maymays1_2006/3-8.jpg

and another taken of her standing up.
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q56/maymays1_2006/4-5.jpg

she is 18" and normally 45.5 to 46.0lbs consistantly and never had an issue until we went to the pacific stream.
Do you think maybe 47lbs would be a good weight for her to stay at and how long do you think it will take for her to reach her normal weight again? I will be weighing her everyday so I will be logging down her food intake and keep her play lowered and cut that in half. She will just have to deal with obed training intead for now.

[RileyRoo]

and thank you everyone for the info. it really helps me out alot!
I wrote down the satan ball recipe aswell

[RileyRoo]

She looks really good here back in April, no spine showing:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_WyANkpbGQnE/TGPmp8pR8mI/AAAAAAAAKIQ/jeequ8Ue_3c/s800/2mwcylk.jpg

my poor baby, I regret the flavor switch. my dog looks like a mess and I feel so damn bad that this made me cry seeing how good she looked compaired to how bad she looks in those other photos.

[Howardpit1]

I agree with what Dan's Grizz said. I also like a nice lean dog, but all year round is not a good idea. If you have zero reserves on a dog and it comes down with a bug, you could easily lose a dog. I can see keeping the weight down in the summer, because all the problems with heat. However, I always wonder about a dog that is "pit weight" year round. The owner almost has to be cutting their food.

"She does look good though".

[...Sydney...]

[Saturday night I switched to raw so it was recent for those who asked why she's so lean.]

(today)
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q56/maymays1_2006/2-8.jpg




I think she looks a lot better in this picture, really good infact. I also don't think being able to see just a little spine on these dogs is a bad thing...pictures can be so hard to tell how the dog really looks sometimes. Don't fret either cause all the diet switching could also have something to do with it. Maybe the two dogs just aren't cut out to eat the same thing? We had this issue too when we switched back to kibble...and ended up going with a grain free food, Acana, made by the same company as Orijen. At first Angel, who doesn't do well to food switches, had some dermatitis and ear infections, but with the help of a little ACV she has adjusted well to the switch.

We know you care about your dog alot and if you are concerned or have an issue I know there is someone here that can help you or at the very least point you in the right direction.

[roe1880]

I'd like to ask another couple questions please...lol.
1) What is the raw diet your feeding?
2) Are you just switching one food for another overnight?
3) Are you cutting out the fat & bone from the raw meat?
4) What grains, vegetables, or supplements if any are you adding into her food?
I hope you don't mind all the questions, i'm just trying to help...
p.s. she does look good in the above pic...lol

[kg420]

I think Riley looks good. I get the "Feed your dog" comments all the time with Dosia too. Here's a few pics of my boy. He eats like 4-5 cups of food a day but he's so high drive and active I can't really keep too much weight on him.

http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy320/Cali-girl420/002-1.jpg

http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy320/Cali-girl420/funnydags032.jpg

http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy320/Cali-girl420/funnydags027.jpg

http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy320/Cali-girl420/030-2.jpg

[RileyRoo]

I'd like to ask another couple questions please...lol.

1) What is the raw diet your feeding? I wanted to do Prey model but with lack of variety of other nutriants I decided to stick with Barf. I also donot feed ground I like feeding whole but my dogs chew and they seem to enjoy it. I do make an exception and I cube Spazz meats into bite sized bits.

2) Are you just switching one food for another overnight? No, they have been on TOTW high prairie for a year straight and Before I switched they were already getting raw treats and bones so that wasn't much of a change.

3) Are you cutting out the fat & bone from the raw meat? Yes, I trim the fat off the meat but they get raw bone. If the meat I feed doesnt have bone then after they get a bone to chew on.

4) What grains, vegetables, or supplements if any are you adding into her food?
(My dogs donot do well with grain.) Romain lettuce, carrots, celery, yams, squash, zuccinin, turnups, pumpkin, asparagus, sweet potatoes, green beans, peas, alfalfa sprout, kelp, apples, bananas, pears, pineapple, blueberry, raspberry, strawberry, cottage cheese, plain yogurt and was thinking of adding goats milk puree'd in with the fruits and veggies I am feeding that day but I have always been against a dog having milk and I have alot of other stuff but I don't feel like walking all the way to the kitchen to dig around for everything that is in there. lol *Lazy ass right now*

I hope you don't mind all the questions, i'm just trying to help...
p.s. she does look good in the above pic...lol

I don't mind, anything that is going to help me out is welcome.
and thanks



has anyone fed lamb or beef brains? I seen some and wanted to try it out with the girls if it is acceptable.

[Dansgrizz]

why would you trim the fat off the meat? i trim the fat off my raw steaks so the dogs can have extra. The dogs need fat to turn into energy. id also start adding salmon oil to your diet.

[Dansgrizz]

ALSO: watch the fruits with lots of citric acid... i havnt done alot of indepth research on it but ive seen the results. Foods with lots of acids such as tomatoes, pinapples, etc... are used before pre keeps to tear the dog down, they can melt the fat right off of um! So watch out for real acidic foods...

[RileyRoo]

dan, thank you for that info. I have Salmon oil so that wont be a problem to add everyday. do you do Prey Model or Barf and what one do you think is more benificial??

[Dansgrizz]

Ok so there is BARF, biologically appropriate raw foods, and BARF Meaty Bones and Raw Food. Just to be clear. The prey model as you said takes alot of resources. It's a mess too lol. SO... That being said I'd like to say ice had a couple (or more) margaritas and I'm gonna go for it lol....


I feed, what the dog needs! Is it Barf or Barf? Sure! Is it Prey? It tries to be.... The dogs diet needs to be well rounded. I achieve this through feeding a diverse diet of meat, fat, bones, cartilage, and all sorts of organs. I increase the fat when they work hard and decrease organs on heavy days as they are rich n make the dogs run hotter. I feed fruits n veggies to round out the diet, also yogurt, cottage cheese, all sorts of oils, and flintstones multi vitamins :). I feed chicken necks, backs, thighs, frames, hearts, livers, kidneys....beef ground chuck, bone, heart, stomach.... I trim all my steaks I eat before cooked n package it in ziplocs for the freezer for when I push the dogs limits and they need extra fuel. I give ACV regularly. I believe that diversity is key when it comes to raw foods. Also I think knowing how the body reacts to too much of a certain thing (such as high amounts of beef hearts = high amounts of phosphorous = more water retaining and consumption = heavier dog = they worker harder and get hotter) is key to having a working dog on a raw diet!

Feed the raw, give satin balls to gain weight n keep weight on! Work your dog, observe the minute details, how they breathe, their wind, strength, and bowel movements while working. Observe how long it rakes a meal to pass through, know the upside of a day of fasting. It's all about the little stuff. Feel the fat, the chicken vs the beef, which is softer n easier to digest? Immerse urself entirely...or go feed kibble!

[RileyRoo]

ok, where the hell is the rep button that sky rockets? I need that right now!

Dan, You are amazing. lol that is ALL I am gonna say.
I Deff got some ingrediants for the Satan balls so I will make those when I wake up.

[Dansgrizz]

Two more things....

1) know the difference between chicken SKIN, n chicken FAT. The skin is damn near useless. The fat is a gold mine. Often times u have to peal tge fat off the skin to seperate. Since the skin has low nutritional value I don't "include" tgat in my days total ounces of feed if I feed it at all.

2) equithin is the working digs enemy abd some salmon oil contains it. It's a preservative that slows and can even stops your dogs ATP process within the cell. As we all should know from highschool biology, the ATP process is as important to us as photosynthesis is to plants. If it shuts down we die. I had a friend feeding milk replacer with high amounts of ethoquin for protein n fat.... It was all good til he took his dog out for hard work, in about 15 minutes the dog was DONE!!!!!

[RileyRoo]

do you thing that TOTW pacific stream had Etho still in it when I was feeding it? there has to be bags unsold still drifting around out there. they're not going to pull ALL the etho laced foods from the shelf when they can sell it and that scares me to think about that.

and The salmon oil we use is called Grizzly salmon oil and we order it from onlynaturalpet.com I have been feeding it for awhile now and I was told Grizzly was a good brand back when I was looking. I usesed it off and on since i am aware that their are few brands I trust with fish anything in it.


anyways...short time outside to take these pics and then we went back inside.

somewhat side view (No riblets showing I think the raw diet is doing very well)
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q56/maymays1_2006/7-2.jpg

action (extra glossy)
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q56/maymays1_2006/6-1.jpg

sitting in the sun view (looking better today!!)
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q56/maymays1_2006/3-9.jpg

never again will I feed my dogs totw. I'd rather switch them to Orijen if they were gonna be on Kibble


anyways to add here are the flavors:

High Prairie:
Crude Protein 32.0% Minimum
Crude Fat 18.0 Minimum
Crude Fiber 3.0% Maximum
Moisture 10.0% Maximum
Zinc 150 mg/kg Minimum
Selenium 0.4 mg/kg Minimum
Vitamin E 150 IU/kg Minimum
Omega-6 Fatty Acids * 2.8% Minimum
Omega-3 Fatty Acids * 0.3% Minimum
Calories: 3,719 kcal/kg (370 kcal/cup) Calculated Metabolizable Energy

Pacific Stream:
Crude Protein 25.0% Minimum
Crude Fat 15.0% Minimum
Crude Fiber 3.0% Maximum
Moisture 10.0% Maximum
Zinc 150 mg/kg Minimum
Selenium 0.4 mg/kg Minimum
Vitamin E 150 IU/kg Minimum
Omega-6 Fatty Acids * 2.4% Minimum
Omega-3 Fatty Acids * 0.3% Minimum
Calories: 3,719 kcal/kg (370 kcal/cup) Calculated Metabolizable Energy.

do you think with her high energy she was burning more of the Pacific Steam?
She ate 2 cups of high prairie with no issues and stayed consistant in weight vs the up in food with ps and change in weight.

[Absolute Peril]

Looks great. Keep up the good work.

You have to think allot of petbull owners think look at a more conditioned dog and think its skinny. They are just misinformed. Iv'e been told by AC my dogs are emaciated but when the vet gives me signed documents stating my animals are perfect in weight they don't know what to say. Just brush it off. She looks great.

[roe1880]

Dan hit it out the park... good stuff bro... FAT is what gives our dogs energy... not carbs like we need... I can't remember & or find the damn article about salmon... do a bit of research on it but kinda remember that their was a specific type of salmon oil that was not good for the dogs....
Continued good luck & yes she does look great in the above pics...

[RileyRoo]

Dan hit it out the park... good stuff bro... FAT is what gives our dogs energy... not carbs like we need... I can't remember & or find the damn article about salmon... do a bit of research on it but kinda remember thattheir was a specific type of salmon oil that was not good for the dogs....
Continued good luck & yes she does look great in the above pics...

I remember hearing something about that too. IF you stumble across that artical before I do can you link it?

[roe1880]

for sure Riley i will... I feed sardines and mackeral from the can with their food but only put it in 1-2 times a week...
Here is a sample of the meal i prepare for my 45-47lb male
1lb of raw (chicken leg quarters whole with bone, ground beef 80-20, turkey whole pieces)
bone is covered above..
4 oz heart, kidney or liver (which ever is on sale that week) 1-2x week
1/4 cup of whole oatmeal (ea. meal)
1 tablespoon of ACV (ea. meal)
16 oz of water with every meal (besides all the water outside in their buckets) (ea. meal)
probiotic powder (ea. meal)
sardines & mackeral as stated above
1 whole egg with shell (1-2 per week)
& as far as supplements I use superfuel, but i dont use it all the time... i use it prekeep (4 weeks) @ 1/2 a scoop & 1 full scoop per meal 6 weeks before weight pull or conformation show..(I stop using it 2 weeks before the show)
1 meal per day & feed at night so their bodies have a chance to digest during the evening... they poop maybe 2 x a day & its not stinky & dries up really fast..
This is the formula that has helped me & been the best so far for them...
Any suggestions or comments are welcome...

[RileyRoo]

alright, thanks for the info. I will try to touch sardines and feed that.