The NKC and "BLUE" Dog's ???

[CHATNJACK]

Edited due to personal reasons.

[OldfortKennels]

I have a blue dog registered as an APBT with the NKC. Many people do now. He is also a CH Show dog within the NKC and also a GRCH Weight Pull dog. Your dog very well may have been the first blue registered as an APBT but he definitely is not the only one.


OFK's Rebel.

http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx335/OldFortKennels/Dogs/Rebel/NKC171.jpg

[PullDawgPits]

Lots of blue APBTs registered with the NKC, I know more personally than I can count on my fingers and toes.

I would have thought that one of Eddie's dogs would have been one of if not the first blue to be registered NKC lol

Stephanie

[CHATNJACK]

Edited due to personal reasons.

[OldfortKennels]

I agree with you wholeheartedly and as a licenesed NKC judge have never understood the standard stating that blue is a disqualifying factor and yet they are registering them left and right. I believe you have every right to be proud of Blade and what you all did together back then.

I remember about 4 years ago while the ADBA still frowned on "Blue" dogs in the show ring, we took Rebel and in a class of 18 we took a 3rd in conformation. Yes blue is just that, a color, and a man/woman who judges a dog by his color is an idiot, IMO. I remember we both got compliments for placing a blue dog and we got cussed, sneered at and talked about. GO ahead, let them talk.

[CASH]

So this is a little off topic but still relavent.
Why are the blue dogs so frowned apon? AKC will not redgisten them as a staffy if they are "blue". It seems as if alot of the APBT clubs dont care for the blue dogs. I am just woundering why that is.
P.S. Blade and Rebel are both fantastic looking dogs in my opinion.

[Blue]

In my humble Opinion the reason for blue Apbts having a hard time is that people put value on the color alone and thats not what the dogs are about. they are about working ability.

[intensive]

how legit is the nkc? no disrespect, ive been told by many people if ukc/adba isnt on the pitty's papers, its not worth a hoot

ex: ckc(cont.) or apbtr

[OldfortKennels]

The NKC was great competition. As far as having dogs registered alone its average. They weight pull competition was a tough as it got at one time.

[intensive]

do they dual register only with adba and ukc as well?

[MCS]

In my humble Opinion the reason for blue Apbts having a hard time is that people put value on the color alone and thats not what the dogs are about. they are about working ability.

I agree with this 100% and would like to add that it seems the grudge against the blues is that this is the color that made these dogs mainstream and fueled the Bully craze.

[Rock Creek Kennels]

how legit is the nkc? no disrespect, ive been told by many people if ukc/adba isnt on the pitty's papers, its not worth a hoot

ex: ckc(cont.) or apbtr


In the past few years I believe they have changed to where the dog has to be UKC or ADBA before you can NKC. I had someone tell me though that they still offer single registrations on the website with an inspectors approval. Not sure if this is totally true though. The only reason my dogs are NKC was for the weight pulls /shows. Ive never registered a litter with the NKC, only UKC / ADBA. Andys right though, we had some of the toughest competition and best turnouts at NKC shows a few years back. There were plenty of times we would have 60-70+ dogs in the pull and would go from 9 am til 1 or 2 am. Ahhhh, the good ole days!!!

On the blue dogs, I could probably name 100 or more blue dogs registered as apbt's through the NKC. We own and have produced quite a few ourself. Many weight pull and show champs as well. Our blue dog Jax (born 6/5/02) has been registered and showing/pulling with the NKC ever since he was around a year old. Well whenever the Southern Pullers went from BBC to NKC which was around 03'.

[CHATNJACK]

Edited due to personal reasons.

[ppits]

i know today, if you where to single register a dog without ADBA/UKC papers you can not put any names on the registration paper or they ask for proof of the lineage. it is hard to get a dog open registered but it still can be done, they prefer to have proof "so to say" of where the dog came from. NKC point system is far better then the ADBA, if people would quit downing the organization it could actually be better in my opinion then the ADBA. you dont have to waste as much money trying to achieve a title as in the ADBA, now the show ring is harder you cant just get 100 points or 34 - 3rd place finishes to champion, you have to win a best in show or two best of sex to champion, this is good in my opinion cause if you know your confirmation dogs there are plenty of champions in the ADBA that are not worthy of that title. basically all registries have their flaws, ADBA registers mutts, just like pointed out in Sparks interview.

[MCS]

What are peoples major problem with the blue? I see blues that conform to APBT stds but people hate on them and say "they aren't game, they aren't real APBTs" most of which are the same ones that will tell you "only the ignorant people select a dog based on color". Can a dog be an APBT soley based on conformation? Most of the stock out there, at least public kennels is untested regardless of color. What are peoples thoughts?

Just to a some background, Diasy is a blue brindle, she was adopted from animal control based on her sweet disposition with people, and kids. She is a pup and has gotten along with my other dog, which is an unaltered male. I hope as she matures there will be no DA issue if so the correct steps will be taken.

I get shit about her being blue as if I went and purchased her for that reason. I also get shit about her being "a skinny blue pit" and so on. She acts all APBT thus far.

Sorry for the long winded rant.:D

Also would it be worth it to get her registered at all? Say as described about with an inspector and so on? For weight pulling or piece of mind purposes.

[CHATNJACK]

What are peoples major problem with the blue? I see blues that conform to APBT stds but people hate on them and say "they aren't game, they aren't real APBTs" most of which are the same ones that will tell you "only the ignorant people select a dog based on color". Can a dog be an APBT soley based on conformation? Most of the stock out there, at least public kennels is untested regardless of color. What are peoples thoughts?

Just to a some background, Diasy is a blue brindle, she was adopted from animal control based on her sweet disposition with people, and kids. She is a pup and has gotten along with my other dog, which is an unaltered male. I hope as she matures there will be no DA issue if so the correct steps will be taken.

I get shit about her being blue as if I went and purchased her for that reason. I also get shit about her being "a skinny blue pit" and so on. She acts all APBT thus far.

Sorry for the long winded rant.:D

Also would it be worth it to get her registered at all? Say as described about with an inspector and so on? For weight pulling or piece of mind purposes.

It is always a good idea to display / show off your dog to the public in a positive light if it has the correct behavior, training and temperament, especially an American Pit Bull Terrier, plus it's fun for you, your children and entire family to attend and participate in sanctioned ADBA / A.D.B.S.I. conformation show’s and weight pull event’s. Since your dog was adopted from animal control and it’s pedigree unknown, I’d strongly recommend that you register her with the ADBA ( American Dog Breeders Association, http://www.adba.cc/ ) using their “Limited Performance Program”. There are many reason’s why pure blooded American Pit Bull Terrier’s don’t have their proper paper work. I’ll let you read for yourself some of the reasons and requirements’ that the ADBA has for their LPP program and more information on how to register your dog with them below. (*PLEASE NOTE* The information below was taken straight from the ADBA web site at http://www.adbadog.com/p_pdetails.asp?fpid=59&pg=59 )

This program has been set up for owners of purebred ‘unregisterable’ American Pit Bull Terriers, that are spayed or neutered. This program will allow dogs with LPP status to enter fun classes at all ADBSI sanctioned shows. This includes junior handler classes and fun classes such as judges choice, best brindle, best red/red nose, best blue or any other fun classes held by a club at an ADBSI sanctioned show. A dog with LPP status is verified as a purebred American Pit Bull Terrier as is reasonably possible using visual inspection.

The Limited Performance Program gives purebred but unregisterable American Pit Bull Terriers a ‘second chance’ to compete along side their owner in fun events at ASBSI sanctioned shows. There are various reasons why a purebred APBT might not be eligible for registration with the American Dog Breeders Association Inc. This might include, the dog is a member of an unregistered litter, where one parents or both parents were not registered. A registered pup might have been sold for less money to a pet owner with registration papers retained by the breeder. Sometimes paperwork has been lost, and the original breeder is unable to be contacted to verify parentage for any number of reasons. Some dogs have been adopted from animal control shelters, the SPCA or various rescue groups, spayed and neutered and placed into homes with responsible owners. If this sound like your dog, then this Limited Performance Program is for you.

Once your dog has been accepted for LPP status an identification card will be issued showing a photo of your dog, a LPP number and ownership information. This identification card will allow participation and fun events at ADBSI sanctioned shows, as well as identification and proof of ownership for your dog.

The fraternity of American Pit Bull Terrier owners and ADBA Sanctioned clubs welcomes responsible owners of LPP status dogs at ADBA Sanctioned shows to participate and become involved.
How to apply for LPP status with the American Dog Breeders Association Inc.

1. Complete an application for LPP status.
2. Enclose two color photos of your dog. One photo showing the dog from the side, in standing position. One photo showing a full view of the dog from the front (standing or sitting) showing the entire head and feet of the dog. A photo will be used for the ID card, so send the highest quality photo possible.
3. Spayed or neutered verification from a veterinarian.
4. $25.00 application fee.

Mail to:
The American Dog Breeders Association Inc.
P.O. Box 1771
Salt Lake City, Utah 84110

After review of your application, if your dog is deemed to be ineligible for LLP status, the $25.00 fee will be returned, minus a $5.00 processing and handling fee.

Enrollment in the Limited Performance Program is not to be misunderstood an as alternate form of registration with the American Dog Breeders Association. This program is for sexually altered American Pit Bull Terriers to allow them to participate in fun events at ADBSI sanctioned shows. The American Dog Breeders Association Inc. reserves the right to cancel a dogs LPP status at any time for cause.

Best of luck to you and your dog regardless of whether or not you decide to register her. Remember, responsible ownership is more important than a piece of paper. After all, dog’s can’t read!

Kindest Regards;
CHATNJACK
.
.
.

[MCS]

I did not know about this, I had not even crossed my mind until recently with this thread to register. But it sounds simple enough and is a good option. I appreciate the info. Thank you CHATNJACK.

Oh and I try my hardest to be a great owner, 90% time she is walked early or late enough that the majority of people are not awake, always on a leash etc. It is the other owners we need to worry about letting the dogs run in the yards with our leashes etc.

[ppits]

Lots of blue APBTs registered with the NKC, I know more personally than I can count on my fingers and toes.

I would have thought that one of Eddie's dogs would have been one of if not the first blue to be registered NKC lol

Stephanie

i just found deva's nkc papers and she was a blue female registered in 2003 by eddie falin.

[PullDawgPits]

I figured that;)

[Rock Creek Kennels]

i just found deva's nkc papers and she was a blue female registered in 2003 by eddie falin.


I know he pulled her with the BBC also. That was right around the BBC to NKC changeover.


I have some videos from the BBC days with Diva, Rattlesnake, and Miracle pulling if you ever wanna see them.

[powerdog]

I'll tell you my blue dog is as game as any. Diesel is the real deal. In my opinion a dog that will pull weight until it can't pull anymore and is still diggin'
. The dog has heart. Most of my dogs have eddie falin's bloodline and he knew what he was doing when he bred his dogs. here is diesel's ped. http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=305696

[Leon]

My girl loves diesel, he is one of her favorite dogs at the show. Have you been working him lately?

[powerdog]

haven't worked diesel in about a month it's been to hot. but I will start later this month to get him ready for October.

[MCS]

I'll tell you my blue dog is as game as any. Diesel is the real deal. In my opinion a dog that will pull weight until it can't pull anymore and is still diggin'
is game to me. The dog has heart. Most of my dogs have eddie falin's bloodline and he knew what he was doing when he bred his dogs. here is diesel's ped. http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=305696

Sorry dude that is NOT the correct use or deffinition of game/gameness.....and could not even be used in the same sentence with the dog you have since it comes from show stock.;)

[OldfortKennels]

and could not even be used in the same sentence with the dog you have since it comes from show stock.


If you let a pedigree decide what "gameness" is for you then you really have no idea what it is either. Only one real way to decide and until then its anybody's guess!

[MCS]

If you let a pedigree decide what "gameness" is for you then you really have no idea what it is either. Only one real way to decide and until then its anybody's guess!

There is only ONE way to find out.....posting a ped to show off, with NO game-dogs in it.....My point is people shouldn't throw around that term, it cannot apply to most dogs of today and should be held with respect for the dogs of the past that earned it.

[OldfortKennels]

Once again you have jumped the gun, maybe you just cant read a pedigree but there ARE game dogs in the pedigree he posted. Not to many people are familiar with the buttermores lines or the malones but Malones and some of the Tipton lines go back into game dogs of the past that "earned it"

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=156183

[MCS]

My appologies, I just noticed what I wanted to. None the less it was a mis-use of the term. So now that you proved your point with me tell your buddy what the essance of game is and not to throw it around with any dog because you know damn well if that statement was made at a show or more viewed board he would get told the samething. I am not putting his dog down just saying a weight pull and pretty ped is no grounds for calling anything GAME.

[MCS]

And for that matter I am sure the dog was chosen based on those lesser know game dogs and not for the fact it was a flashy PR laced ped or desired color. Matter of fact most Am bullys Amstaffs etc have some in their blood and that don't really add up to squat. Unless it has been through the fire itself cannot be called game and unless it's parents have been through it, it is not game bred. So with that said there is nothing left for me to say. But you can keep on brother have a good one.

[OldfortKennels]

Unless it has been through the fire itself cannot be called game .

1. We agree on that.
2. Buddy or not I just corrected what you said incorrectly, and the only reason I did so was you were so quick to jump on this guy and correct him like the almight authority on gameness when what you were saying was not even correct..

side note and unless it's parents have been through it, it is not game bred
WRONG AGAIN.......shees dude for all your talking get something right...... a litter bred from game dogs, a consistent line of game dogs, proven or not is a game bred litter, it just has to be consistent line breeding, the parents do not have to be proven, just to be consistenly line bred off of dogs that were game.

3. I have NEVER believed weight pull to be a form of gameness or even a proving grounds for gameness.
4. I dont know why he chose that dog, neither do you, but you go ahead and assume all you want, we both know what assuming leads to. I do know that the dogs in the 1st several generations were good pulldogs, I also know who bred the dogs and this guy is good friends with the individual who bred the dogs, so if I may do some assuming, IM going for, he wanted a good pulldog, had a friend who bred some good pulldogs......got a good pulldog, screw the blue color and PR crap becuase thats all it is.

5. So with that said there is nothing left for me to say. But you can keep on brother have a good one.


Thats probablly best as most of what you have said has just been....... well wrong!

[powerdog]

Sorry dude that is NOT the correct use or deffinition of game/gameness.....and could not even be used in the same sentence with the dog you have since it comes from show stock.;)

Maby I am wrong but I've always belived that gamness means that a dog will do what ever it takes to complete a task. Despite pain, or how tired the dog is it will go as long as it has to until there is nothing left. Weight pulling is more that just strength it is about heart. I always thought that gamness was heart. I am no expert but I do have dogs on my yard that have jeep, eli, red boy and snooty in their peds so I do know what game is. Dog fighting is illegal so how else are we gonna preserve the gamness in our breed?

[MCS]

There are plenty of true APBTs if you look around.....south of the border, east to europe for starters. In truth it will slowly die out here in the states, but there will always be some true APBTs left in the world.

[MCS]

[QUOTE=OldfortKennels;38685]
WRONG AGAIN.......shees dude for all your talking get something right...... a litter bred from game dogs, a consistent line of game dogs, proven or not is a game bred litter, it just has to be consistent line breeding, the parents do not have to be proven, just to be consistenly line bred off of dogs that were game.
QUOTE]

Not what I have heard.....line breeding is great, but when you cannot test or cull accordingly then you are breeding cold or curs in with the game dogs. Therefore to be a true game bred dog it's parents need to be proven, and that still assures you of nothing other than a shot at getting a good one.....but really who cares anymore. The game is dead.

[OldfortKennels]

The "GAME" is not dead, it never will be. Its illegal but it still happens plenty HERE in the US. It will always be. True that breeding linebred game dogs you will get curs but the litter is still "gamebred". A dog bred from pure game lines is GAME BRED. It may not be game per say but its game bred, they are two diffferent things completely. I would definitely prefer to get a dog off of proven parents if that was what I was looking for but as you stated even that guarantees you nothing.

Powerdog--gameness is not heart, heart is awsome but its not gameness. This term gets misused alot. Gamness can only be proven one way and that is in the box and that is illegal so for the majority of us law abiding citizens, its a trait we cant test for. Heart is what we have to settle for.
Gameness is what keeps a dog going for 2 hours going into a dog uphill and never quitting wheather its winning or losing. It just cant be tested any other way.

[powerdog]

Ok thanks. Like I said I am no expert. I have never fought dogs so i wouldn't know what to look for anyway. I just go off of what I read. Just a question, doesn't a dog have to have heart to be able to fight for 3 hours or more? I quess I am thinking about rocky balboa when he said its not how hard you hit but how hard you can get hit and still move forward. Fighting till there is nothing left or you die trying. Maby i have read other peoples definition of game and they were wrong. I am here to learn.

[MCS]

The "GAME" is not dead, it never will be. Its illegal but it still happens plenty HERE in the US. It will always be.

Long live the game.....guess you didn't catch my sarcasim with that early statement. ;)

[Rock Creek Kennels]

Weight pull tests strength, drive, and heart. Color of a dog means NOTHING. If you think it does, youre wrong. A pedigree doesnt make a dog either. Ive known Eddie Falin, Steven Webb, and Al & Donna Malone for a long time now. They would never breed a sub-par dog just to make a buck. They all truely love the breed and look out for whats best to preserve the breed.

[Rock Creek Kennels]

i just found deva's nkc papers and she was a blue female registered in 2003 by eddie falin.


There was probably a big "lump" of apbts that were registered NKC right after the falling out with the BBC. Of course all of Eddies, Troy, Stevens, and ours on top of some others who were pulling back then that are no longer in it.

You planning on doing anymore NKC pulls? I miss those days!

[versatile]

The "GAME" is not dead, it never will be. Its illegal but it still happens plenty HERE in the US. It will always be. True that breeding linebred game dogs you will get curs but the litter is still "gamebred". A dog bred from pure game lines is GAME BRED. It may not be game per say but its game bred, they are two diffferent things completely. I would definitely prefer to get a dog off of proven parents if that was what I was looking for but as you stated even that guarantees you nothing.

Powerdog--gameness is not heart, heart is awsome but its not gameness. This term gets misused alot. Gamness can only be proven one way and that is in the box and that is illegal so for the majority of us law abiding citizens, its a trait we cant test for. Heart is what we have to settle for.
Gameness is what keeps a dog going for 2 hours going into a dog uphill and never quitting wheather its winning or losing. It just cant be tested any other way.

game bred does not mean from pure game lines. game bred means the parents proved themselves game in the box. game bred only goes from one generation to the next. if the dog was proven a cur, it's from a game line but it's pups can not be called game bred.

[sw_df27]

:DeadHorse:

[Rock Creek Kennels]

:DeadHorse:



hahahahaha was a good thread though.

[sw_df27]

hahahahaha was a good thread though

I highlighted the key phrase there lol

[versatile]

I highlighted the key phrase there lol

it WAS a good thread but people still have/had misunderstandings. game bred does not mean from pure game lines. game bred means the parents proved themselves game in the box. game bred only goes from one generation to the next. if the dog was proven a cur, it's from a game line but it's pups can not be called game bred.

[sw_df27]

you do realize you just repeated yourself this topic will never have everyone agree to it which is why it's like beating a dead horse it will get no one anywhere I don't know why you insist on going around the forum digging old shit just to argue ............. oh I forgot you KNOW everything about everything :rolleyes:

[green machine]

I tried holding back a comment also,Steph but good point.

[Rock Creek Kennels]

I highlighted the key phrase there lol


Lol, well technically it still IS a good thread. But was much better 2 years ago though.


Game bred, show bred, linebred, or inbred I (and any REAL dogman) could care less. Its all about the individal dog.

[versatile]

you do realize you just repeated yourself this topic will never have everyone agree to it which is why it's like beating a dead horse it will get no one anywhere I don't know why you insist on going around the forum digging old shit just to argue ............. oh I forgot you KNOW everything about everything :rolleyes:


there is only one definition of game bred. roll your eyes all u want. i don't want to argue. i'm looking for interesting topics. you as a moderator should realize that everyone isn't interested in the same things u are. i also noticed how many more members we are gettting (everyone doesn't share your opinion). only one true definition of game bred.............i repeated myself because with all that beating of the dead horse two years ago...............no one stated the real definition of game bred!

[NATE]

there is only one definition of game bred. roll your eyes all u want. i don't want to argue. i'm looking for interesting topics. you as a moderator should realize that everyone isn't interested in the same things u are. i also noticed how many more members we are gettting (everyone doesn't share your opinion). only one true definition of game bred.............i repeated myself because with all that beating of the dead horse two years ago...............no one stated the real definition of game bred!

You wouldn't know a game dog if it was using your pecker as a spring rope
You need to take your ass on some where and take your PHD in BS with you go

[bruce]

You wouldn't know a game dog if it was using your pecker as a spring rope
You need to take your ass on some where and take your PHD in BS with you go

Damn Nate why don,t you quit holding back and tellem what you think