Cycles with Fears

[Dansgrizz]

My male maverick is fearful of alot of stuff... How can I use cycling to help him overcome these fears of vets office, strangers, new things in his yard,etc... Can I get him to the point where he is less fearful on first exposures?

[APBTMOMMY]

How old is he?

[Dansgrizz]

He's 13 months.

[APBTMOMMY]

OK ...Has he not had much exposure to these sorta things until now? What made you realize that he is kiddish about these things? I'M not a very good person for this kind of question, however I would definitely like to see what other have to say about it! I mean I would probably just do my best to take him to the vets office once in a while just to visit and let him kind of get used to it so that way when he goes he doesn't always think of it as it being something to fear/ be nervous about. Also seeing new people when he walks into the vets office would maybe help with strangers.


Then every week or so put something in the yard for him to get used to there being something different..I don't know if these are the proper things to do, but these are some of the things that I would try to see if it would help anything...but I will keep an eye out so see what others think/say about it! Good question BTW!

[Dansgrizz]

That's the cycling aspect it's about repeated exposure....

I've been working with basic socialization but new fears pop up constantly

[APBTMOMMY]

Hummm ..I dunno then hopefully someone comes along soon to answer this question... I would like to know myself ;)

[Dansgrizz]

Cough julie k cough diedre m cough ;)

[Peanutsmommy]

Dan what kind of fears does he have specifically and how do you react to his fear?

[George Bailey]

My male maverick is fearful of alot of stuff... How can I use cycling to help him overcome these fears of vets office, strangers, new things in his yard,etc... Can I get him to the point where he is less fearful on first exposures?

Here's a twofold SATS approach, Dan.

Condition relaxation ('easy') with massage and bridging, and practice in a neutral environment. I know you have been working on this and have had some success. We recommend you name the opposite, 'alert', and practice having the dog go from one state to the other. You will feel your dog becoming more proficient.

We name everything for the dogs, starting out with their own body parts and neutral objects. The basic protocol for naming objects is to present, one at a time and in hand, two neutral objects, name it, and bridge the dog for acknowledging it in any way. You have to be aware enough to catch if the dog is making a subtle sign if that is their personality type. Some may give a sideways glance, others might put their mouth on it. To proof, present both and ask the dog to identify each by name, then switch hands.
You don't have to drill (two or three reps), and you don't have to push the object into the dog's space. This then sets the stage for you being able to teach your dog about the scary things in life, many of which appear like monsters under the bed in the adolescent stages. If you have information about what is scary, it becomes less so. Learning replaces the chemical mosh which fear causes, they cannot exist in the same space, and I have seen many once fearful dogs become curious about their environment.

It's delightful to see the dogs catch on to learning vocabulary! No, they don't speak English, and yes, they are still dogs, but they can learn many words and many concepts. Kayce once asked me to make a list of all that George knew. After I got to the second page, I called her and told her I figured it out, because I really don't know what all he knows now. We must still manage and treat our dogs with respect to their species, but I believe this is the wave of the future in animal training, kudos to Kayce Cover.

Julie K

[APBTMOMMY]

Great post ....thanks....

[Dansgrizz]

Awesome i think i am missing the step of naming his alert stage. Because his alertness i such a split second reaction the minute he does it i will say "ALERT" and recognize that im sure it will get his attention. Attention recieved i will then do his conditioned relaxation with him.

As far as the vets office. Wil cycling the office do anything for him? such as taking him in and out of the office or taking him closer to the office gradually do anything for his fears?

[George Bailey]

Dan wrote:
"As far as the vets office. Wil cycling the office do anything for him? such as taking him in and out of the office or taking him closer to the office gradually do anything for his fears?"

I've found that it really helps to name all people, instruments, tools, sensations, and things in the environment for the dogs. While teaching and actually in the vet's office, we've found they like to be not only informed but respected. We allow withdrawals (I don't mean run out the door), and then ask if they are ready. This goes along the same premise as when you are getting a shot or other painful medical procedure--- you want to know what's happening, if it will hurt, and be asked if you are ready. If on the other hand, somebody just jabbed you with a needle out of the blue, you might feel resentful.

Here is a photograph of George targeting his chin to my hand and his nostril to a nasal applicator:
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m165/jmkinsey/SPRAYLO.jpg

Successive cycles of bridging, both tactile and verbal, are used to support the dog's participation and gain duration. Much can be done beforehand to prepare a dog for medical procedures. The above photo shows that the dog understands 'nostril' and can target with some duration. I've been successful in cleaning teeth, giving injections and grinding nails using SATS methods, and in Europe, the veterinary community is beginning to show interest as cooperation means less stress on the dog. In fact, this photo is from a demonstration for TX A&M Vet College.

Julie K

[Dansgrizz]

This is awesome info julie!! What do you mean by "allow withdrawals"?

[George Bailey]

This is awesome info julie!! What do you mean by "allow withdrawals"?

I mean we ask them if they are ready and if they indicate they are not, we allow them to withdraw, rather than force them to accept. If you give them a rest break, they always come back.

Julie K

[Dansgrizz]

That's very good. So does this apply to entry into the vets office also? Just wait at the door til he decides to enter? Naming the door, the vet, thewaiting room, everything.... Of course.

[George Bailey]

That's very good. So does this apply to entry into the vets office also? Just wait at the door til he decides to enter? Naming the door, the vet, thewaiting room, everything.... Of course.

Well, I wouldn't leave it up to him, he might decide never to go in. Give a moment of time out, ask him again, but say 'here we go' not 'please enter herein, this dangerous stinky scary place'.:)

Julie K

[Dansgrizz]

Bwahahahaha!!!! Right on julie k!!! Hahahaha!!! Training can be FUN!!! LOL

[DeidreM]

Julie is one smart cookie. You see for us it's all about educating our dogs - we're not snobs though! Oh, sorry, I am also LL1 SATS certified and have the pleasure of visiting with Julie and her crew this year.
For your purposes Dan, naming and cycles can be used to deal with fear issues as well as over reactive issues, and don't mistake me saying that as meaning that I think the two are the same nor that the approach you would take in dealing with fear would be the same as with hyper aroused dogs. For fear as you describe you want to give more information about what is out there and you want to support your dog while you are building that common language together.
Here are a few excerpts from what I wrote on another llist today, some of it might be applicable for your situation. I just modified the post before submitting it here.

When in bridge and target, otherwise known as SATS, we talk about
conditioned relaxation, we really mean profound relaxation, which is a marked
physiological response easy to observe.
To help support the* animal with "getting easy" we use an intermediate
bridge to marke increments of time in which the animal remains steady or
calm. We use a terminal bridge to mark each moment when a significant
letting down, so to speak, occurs.
For me when working with a hyper aroused dog pushing his or her own
agenda as opposed to attempting to work with me, I go for an all out
lettting go, even a final resignation on the part of the dog if that be what
needs to happen - that would look like a deep sigh and relaxing to the
floor. I could go on all day describing numerous scenarios in which a dog
previously trying to bully another animal or rush the door learned rather
quickly to listen an maintain it's cool. With less volatile dogs, people can
work with toggling between easy and alert, but my own preference is to first
help the dog experience a truly profound state of relaxation in order to
begin to reprogram that animal's nervous system.
2 way communication is where it is at for getting on the same page with your
animal. The bridging is perfect for staying on track with each other. In
SATS We name everything that gets our dogs attention rather than ask them to
ignore it. We acknowledge their interest and then have a conversation about
what we think is or isn't acceptable, what's a really good idea on their
part or not a particularly good idea, like running out in traffic to get to
a dog on the other side of 4 lanes of traffic. We negotiate, we ask for
cooperation, for respect, we honor and let our dogs tell us many things
about what is going on in the environment that is important to them.

And:

As far as cycles go, you needn't always use a co trainer to do the
work. You can cycle yourself and your dog in and out of sight of triggers.
You can utilize an interrupt to break the pattern of all out surge ahead.
Teaching a dog targeting skills goes a long way to focus a dog's attention on objects, locations, body parts, all things that in their contexts impacts on daily living. Breaking it down as if you were introducing a child to new things whether they be scary or new, will go along way to getting onn the same page with your dog.

More on cycling - which needs to be paired with rests of equal time to the exposure:
Since you will likely be out walking your dog, when you cycle your own dog
toward and away from a trigger, you have the control and you can feel what
is going on with your dog and you can take whatever detours you want when
you want. In fact, I recommend lots of circling back or taking turns - taking detours to break all expectation of what may be to come. I don't mean to say that you can't go exploring - you should go exploring. Name everything. Things in the
distance, things at your feet. Get the 2 way thing going on... build the common language and "common culture" as Kayce likes to say. It's all about giving information lots of it, but don't mistake that as meaning drilling it in or being redundant!
After receiving a very finely trained guide dog almost 9 years ago I still had loads of things to work on with her. For the first few months I struggled with out of control dog distraction problems, and other things such as mouthiness, darting at
kids faces, biting people's clothes as they passed when we were on recreational walks... She was also experienccing "sttress in a new environment" which translated into behaviors such as lunging at plastic coated poles, scraps of shiny paper in the grass, record albums pulled out of their jackets for examination - oh yes and she had space issues too, if a person tried to approach in a narrow hallway, they'd get a growl and the evil eye. Luckily within 3 months of being home with this lovely dog, I was
recommended to the bridge and target list. 6 weeks home and the stress fell away like clockwork, as I was told would be the case, but the other problemms remained. Through coaching I received on the list and from what I read in the manual that I purchased the dog distraction problems vanished in a few sessions if not a mere few hours at the most by using an interrupt. I incorporated nameing and cycles of approaching and reapproaching from around the block while bridging. Initially, as soon as I felt my dog's
pace quicken unexplainably, and the signs were always pretty clear when it
was another dog, interrupting the tendency to bolt ahead was all I really
needed to rid her of the frenzy and ability to self-reward that behavior. Physical corrections and counter- conditioning did nothing to effect a similar change.

(Dan, the bridging and naming and cycling your dog in and out of particularly difficult environments might be the way to go, but somehow, it sounds like your dog might improve significantly with the mere acknowledgement and naming of what is out there.)

Back to CR.

"Food overshadows learning" to quote another SATS trainer when she was attempting to coach someone who was holding out steak as a reward for her dog quieting down; it didn't work - the dog had no interest in the food. It's important to know that using SATS, what we substitute for 1 on 1 food rewards, or even
jackpots, is quality interaction and the opportunity to engage in a truly
cooperative effort.
When working on conditioned relaxation we never use food. The aim of the exercise is to relax not anticipate anything more than that. With easily aroused dogs, it might have taken me up to 45 minutes to get a dog to drop down it's head or collapse on the floor after finally giving up his own agenda. With one very very vocal JRT who thought he was going to rule the house, one session of CR and lots of cycling someone pulling up in the drive, moving towards the front door within sight, moving out of sight and only approaching when the dog was in control, he became puddy in my hands and as I liked to say "he became my dog." Once this hyper reactive dog learned significant self-control, it made it fun to have him around, taught him to respect the other dog of the house, which he in turn adopted as if she were me, and earned him the
reward of many a walk and jog outdoors. He remained a very spirited dog but
a far more cooperative one, a dog who not only was looking out for his own interests but I dare say grew quite fond of me.

[Dansgrizz]

That was awesome! Clap... Clap ... Clap..clap clap clap clap clap!!!

[Dansgrizz]

Update:
I took maverick to the vet today to get 1 staple removed from his paw(fox tail fiasco) I asked him to come with me to the door he was calm I asked him to come inside (opened door for him) he wanted to retreat. I allowed it but explained we would have to go inside and look at his paw with dr. Peeper. Pointing, naming, gesturing the whole time trying to explain to maverick what was happening. Well he marched right up to the door like before and when I opened it and started naming his brain was helter skelter and exhibited signs of fear. I kept naming through the experience but I felt much was lost on his mental state. I named it fear. I named his alert. I named his settle(one brief moment in the exam room). I believe what I missed was someconditioned relaxation time in the office. They swept him right into a room and the vet saw us right away, there was no time for maverick to relax. Comments and critiques are welcome.
Ps: I have been working on naming mavericks left and right paws. He was doing so well at home putting them in my lap. When I asked him to put it on dr. Peepers lap with a two finger target he just looked down at his right paw as if he wanted to but his fear wouldn't let him.

[DeidreM]

Update:
I took maverick to the vet today to get 1 staple removed from his paw(fox tail fiasco) I asked him to come with me to the door he was calm I asked him to come inside (opened door for him) he wanted to retreat. I allowed it but explained we would have to go inside and look at his paw with dr. Peeper. Pointing, naming, gesturing the whole time trying to explain to maverick what was happening. Well he marched right up to the door like before and when I opened it and started naming his brain was helter skelter and exhibited signs of fear. I kept naming through the experience but I felt much was lost on his mental state. I named it fear. I named his alert. I named his settle(one brief moment in the exam room). I believe what I missed was someconditioned relaxation time in the office. They swept him right into a room and the vet saw us right away, there was no time for maverick to relax. Comments and critiques are welcome.
Ps: I have been working on naming mavericks left and right paws. He was doing so well at home putting them in my lap. When I asked him to put it on dr. Peepers lap with a two finger target he just looked down at his right paw as if he wanted to but his fear wouldn't let him.

Dan, I heard no mention of your practicing CR using ibbing at home. Naming is not the same thing as ibbing to hold an animal steady and mark successes and increments of time. Pointing is not a substitute for targeting. Are you working on teaching your dog body parts at home? Have we covered these bases before here on list?
Everything you do with your dog at this stage is building a language for 2 way communication about the difficult (about everything really) things happening in his world. And, yes you need time, and if you do not have it in the waiting room then you need to show up early outside the vets and practice getting easy before going in. If you actively engage your dog in targeting his body parts, ultimately mimicking vet procedures, and if you get good at CR, your dog will be far better prepared next time around. Also if your vet's office is willing, they should play your game: each person involved in seeing or handling your dog can be identified.
You can tell your dog: "Here comes Nancy, touch Nancy, good X, Nancy."
You can ask your dog to target everything you name, and don't forget to mark the name and object with an "X." You can visit the vets for brief social visits or you can explain to your dog that this is a necessary visit and he needs to keep cool. Your own pointing and gesturing sounds a little frenetic to me. Hmmmm, keep cool, man, keep cool.

[DeidreM]

Oh sorry, I overlooked your "PS" and what you say definitely spells hope. Break it down more, have the doctor introduce himself and ask your dog to target the doctor's hand with his nose first. Honestly, why shouldn't vets and their staff be expected to ask permission or at least introduce themselves first? This might even be a situation in which one really quick response to your asking your dog for a particular body part during a vet visit could warrant a small food reward if he instantly agrees, that is if the dog is clear enough to focus on the request and is not panicking or unable to cope.
This reminds me of how good my mom always was with fussy babies and children. For her there were no two ways about anything. She was so quick and so upbeat (quick is the key) that you couldn't go off on a tangent, not that that describes your dog at all! Point is that in real life situations, sometimes getting in there and being quick rather than lingering confusedly is best.

[Dansgrizz]

Thanks deidre ! I have been working on CR by massaging to relax. I have just begin says this week thanks for all your advice. I need to do more IB and TB that's for sure.

[DeidreM]

I just uploaded a few pictures of my last guide dog. I go for another in mid July. Sorry she is not a Pit but she had tremendous vigor and intellect, hope you all can see beuty in other breeds!

[Dansgrizz]

Thanks for the info deidre!! I'll check out those pics!! I love any dog that works!!

[DeidreM]

That was awesome! Clap... Clap ... Clap..clap clap clap clap clap!!!

Humoring me? I'm laughing.

[Dansgrizz]

I was giving you the dramatic clap LOL!! I'm glad you liked it