The Open Class; CDX and U-CDX

[George Bailey]

The AKC Companion Dog Excellent title consists of the following:

Heel Free and Figure Eight, 40 points
Drop on Recall, 30 points
Retrieve on Flat, 20 points
Retrieve over High Jump, 30 points
Broad Jump, 20 points

(Group) Long Sit (3 minutes, handlers out of sight), 30 points
(Group) Long Down (5 minutes, handlers out of sight), 30 points


The UKC United Companion Dog Excellent title consists of the following:

Honor Down Stay (with handler out of sight while other team performs the heel free and figure eight), 30 points

Heel off Leash and Figure 8 (with steward walking in ring), 40 points
Drop On Recall (with steward walking by), 30 points
Retrieve On Flat, 20 points
Retrieve Over High Jump, 30 points
Broad Jump, 20 points

(Group) Long Sit (for 3 minutes with handlers out of sight), 30 points

[Leon]

Julie do you have any videos of this?..sounds interesting.

[George Bailey]

This is where the fun begins! Our dogs love to retrieve and jump; a well built APBT is a natural jumper. In the earlier days of obedience, the dogs jumped one and a half their shoulder height, now they only jump shoulder height, not much of a challenge for an atheletic breed. All of the dogs I train enjoy jump training, and it is great for conditioning.

The main reasons why people do not advance into open is the inability to teach a formal retrieve, and faulty stay skills.

Our dogs in particular tend to get creative and go into overdrive because of the excitement of the moving exercises. I have had several who like to run full speed on the retrieve, kick the dumbell, mouth it on the way back, and currently have one who runs full speed, stops on a dime, and does a handstand while picking up. I like to teach jumping, but jump problems often include taking off way too soon, and hoping to power over even if you are a short dog. When we first started, we had to use wooden dumbells, so we trained with metal bits and took extra wood bits to shows in case somebody bit through a dumbell in a moment of oral ecstasy. I've had several who liked to slide on the drop on recall, or just couldn't see the point of interrupting a good fast recall.

I am not a fan of the out of sight stays, particularly the AKC ones. It's not something I would ever do in real life. It requires a dog with steady nerves and a workmanlike attitude; they are often quite independent so that is sometimes hard to instill.

There are many more fronts and finishes to perfect in open than in novice, so I practice out of context, play games of find the position, and use plenty of flattery.

Julie K

[George Bailey]

Here is Pointer, Race, and her trainer, Julie Hill, performing a beautiful open run:
YouTube- Race at LCCOC

Another lovely run by Leslie Boucher with Yellow Lab, Twist:
YouTube- Leslie and Twist at LCCOC

Julie K

[Leon]

Damn, thats pretty good. I hope Czar can learn to do that stuff. The dog was soo well behaved and attentive to his handler.

[George Bailey]

Leon, check out Leslie and her lab's video which I added above. Both these women are great trainers!

Julie K

[Leon]

Thats a great video too. I noticed how the dogs are so calm and do everything on command, if i throw something, Czar would be all over it. Do you have any videos of actual training? i like to see how they train these dogs to do this stuff.

[George Bailey]

I have photos and we can talk about training the individual exercises. I want to put up the rules for utility, too, which is like college level, and the most fun to teach and show in.

Julie K

[Leon]

Czar is 9 weeks old. You think it is too much to expect him to listen to me at all times?

[George Bailey]

At nine weeks, you should be taking advantage of the imprinting age, building a communication and support system, and teaching him how to love learning. With SATS training, we do very few repetitions, 3 to 5 at most, especially with puppies, before advancing to the next progression.

He won't listen unless you are an interesting, supportive, and enthusiastic teacher. The best way to foster and build focus and attention is to always reinforce it. When I have a new puppy, I micromanage the environment so that I am always the best game in town, I am access to everything enjoyable.

Julie K

[Leon]

I think thats a bad thing in my case, he finds me too interesting. He think i am a toy lol.

No matter what i try he always bites me, i tried the harsh and nice way, i give him a toy, and sometimes he ignores it and goes for my hand.

This is what i do currently, i tell him a stern NO..but he ignores it. So i tried sticking my finger in his mouth, it gets his attention and he stops and looks at me for a few seconds, and as soon i raise my hands or make any movements he wants to chew on my hands or toes again.

He knows, come, sit, wait, and let go so far. But the no biting is getting frustrating.

[George Bailey]

Leon, let me know when you've taught the bridges. He's just playing with you like he would another puppy. You can do a whole lot with teaching him to learn how to use his mouth on various objects once you have that support system to communicate with him.

I identify and name all mouth parts for a puppy, they are going to be teething for one thing, and their gums can be sore. I want them to let me handle everything in and around their mouth.

Julie K

[Dansgrizz]

Julie your info is outstanding as usual!

[Leon]

I started him on the bridge today.

In my understanding, Bridge is a way to communicate to your dog that he has done what you asked him to. Correct?

Well, I am already confused with step one lol.

"Terminal Bridge: Present food treat while saying a short, crisp "X." Repeat the “X” as the animal actually takes the food. Repeat this step two more times for a total of three trials. This is the terminal bridge, used to tell the animal he has successfully fulfilled the trainer's request."

I am using guguguGU as my bridge, as given by the example.

In step one what is the trainers request? that he eats his treat?

[George Bailey]

You are only conditioning your bridge, there is no cue or command.
The two X's initially are what we call more bang for your buck and will pretty much be the last time you use a 1 to 1 ratio.

Julie K

[George Bailey]

Drop on Recall

The exercise is:
Dog must wait in a sit stay while handler leaves.
Handler calls dog when judge issues command.
Handler drops dog when judge issues command.
Dog stays in drop until handler calls dog to front when judge issues command.
Dog finishes to heel position.

This is a toughie for lots of dogs and their trainers. I believe the reason for this is that down is taught next to the person, so that becomes al part of the exercise. The other half of the exercise is running to the person, which most dogs will do. I don't practice the second half of the exercise (front from a down) in conjunction with the first part, and encourage my students to do the same.

It's pretty common for people to fail open because their dogs blow through the drop, so it's a good idea to really take your time training it.

I'm working So White on this now, so here are a few things we are doing:

Down from a sit from progressively further distances. This can be a problem if the dog has been taught to and believes it must sit before it downs, as this is two actions and you will lose points if it happens, but it does help anchor the dog in place.
Down from a stand from progressively further distances.
Change of position behind a barrier.
Down on targets, multiple and varied targets.
Bridge when dog goes down on its own away from me, anywhere, anytime.
Down in close proximity to distractions such as food, people, toys.

Going down while backing up, first with them in heel position (me moving with them), then in front (me moving into them). My Corgis always did a fold back down on both the drop and signal exercise, I've never had an AST do that, all were taught the same fold back down, initially. I attribute this to the Corgis being herding dogs (part of their natural work), and the Staffs being terriers (and basically not liking to be told when to down).
Asking the dog to take one step backward and down, progressing to more steps. I use chutes of some sort if I need to to keep them moving straight.
Reversing the process and asking for the above without any extraneous movement from me.

The dog must interrupt forward motion on its own, and a forward moving dog is a dog who kicks into drive, so they must understand that down means go down fast and in place. This involves (for me and the dogs I train) some compulsion, which I pair with a game, play, and a question, 'how fast can you do it?' Lots of bridging for support and clear information.

So White sometimes cheats and does not drop her elbows all the way down, so I'm working with SATS to have her down include chin and elbows on the floor. It's great to be able to give her this information.

When you see the dog start to anticipate the drop, it's not a bad thing, just a sign the dog is beginning to comprehend.

Julie K

[Dansgrizz]

Retieve over high jump 30 points...

How high is the obstacle?

[George Bailey]

Only shoulder height, maximum 36" AKC, and 24" UKC. There is also a large list of breeds which only jump 3/4's, heavier boned, giant, or dwarf breeds.
When I first started, it was one and a half times shoulder height. Big difference.

Julie K

[Dansgrizz]

Those jumps must be an awesome work out for the dogs! I'd love to see both my dogs jumping 1.5x their shoulder height!

[apbtproud]

wow those are some awesome videos!
I just started obedience with my pup.

[George Bailey]

It's great to have some really wonderful examples to keep in your mind and to strive for while you are training. Both those ladies are from LA and I've seen them at shows and corresponded for years.
Julie K

[DeidreM]

Too cool Julie. You really have your work cut out for you. I love the many set ups you do, the many steps you take to get each part of an exercise in place. I love reading through the various ways in which the dog can go down either through step by step training or of it's own inclination... from a sit, from a stand, in an instant! I can easily picture your younger flying dogs going into an instant down from mid air - isn't that what SoWhite and George do when they launch themselves across the room to land in your company's lap while they are otherwise quietly watching a movie? Slightly different context, I realize.
It's sweet that SoWhite is learning to target her chin and other parts to the ground just as George does.
By having your dog's down behind a barrier, is the intention to simulate your being out of sight?

[George Bailey]

Behind a barrier just keeps them from moving forward and toward me. Out of sight stays have been easy so far with this dog, she's word savvy and pretty confident about the environment.

New tactic is say down to So White and her mama the Bean and give a treat to the one who does it first.

I found out last night that So White still needs several cues, she cannot down at a distance on only the verbal or only the signal yet, so we are working on this, too. I generally give both cues twice and one cue on the third rep. I admit, I must count to save my dogs from endless boring repetitions!

Julie K

[DeidreM]

Funny to think of all this though it sounds like all is coming along nicely. Ok, I get the barrier thing now like using a shoot for keeping a straight backing line, etc. I need a hallway here to do something similar to get my dog to learn to move parralel to something when asked. I will use targets on th efloor and an understanding of body parts to help with position as well.
I say "funny" not to mean laughable but amused. I know Julie and her dogs, and everytime I think of anything any of them do, I'm smiling. They are a most amiable bunch.

[George Bailey]

Teaching a formal, disciplined retrieve is one of the main reasons people fail to continue on in obedience. To understand why, let's look at the exercise and try to see what goes wrong.

In competition, the exercises are the retrieve on the flat and the retrieve over the high jump. The first includes:
Stay seated in heel while the dumbell is thrown.
Go to the dumbell when commanded,
pick it up,
return without mouthing
sit squarely in front position
hold until the judge gives the handler the directive to take the dumbell
release the dumbell to the handler
return to heel position when directed by the judge.
In the second exercise, the dog must go out and return over a shoulder height jump.

The single most common problem I have encountered with teaching retrieve is failure to help the dog learn to retrieve in a calm, dutiful fashion and not to succumb to prey drive. This is magnified by the novice owner who teaches in prey and neglects the many steps before adding distance, speed, and a moving object. In short, our dogs love to have things in their mouth, most are hard mouthed and high in prey drive, and it is difficult to get them to retrieve for us instead of for themselves.

Here are a few of the steps I use to achieve a good retrieve:

When taught with SATS, retrieving is a targeting concept; dog targets object with mouth, then targets it back to your hand(s) or other destination, such as George delivering objects to the trash. Cycles of intermediate bridging allow you to tailor your sessions to the individual dog and the level it is at, at the moment.

Do not inhibit the dogs bite; their mouth is the equivalent of our hands, it is one of their main tools, and can be used in a useful fashion. Teaching a mouthy pup what to do with its mouth is much better than attempting to squelch the use of their mouth altogether. It keeps them entertained and negates the attraction you may build into an object by forbidding them from using their mouth on it.

Teach names of the various parts of the mouth, teach handling the mouth and targeting with it. Name and identify mouth open and mouth closed. I teach all of my dogs to (target) walk into my hand on bridge of nose and chin, which is effectively, holding their mouths closed. This eliminates resentment when helping them learn to hold, and causes a participatory response to occur.

Don't limit the experience to only a ball, dumbell, etc. In beginning a dog's mouthwork, I teach initially on my finger, because I can immediately feel a calm hold, then introduce different shapes and textures, so they may hold a straw, pen, dollar bill, frying pan, glove, metal object, wood, plastic, heavy, delicate, etc., all of which are named. In competition obedience, the dog will retrieve a dumbell (plastic or wood), glove, and metal and leather scent articles, so these are introduced early and then addressed individually.

Teach take and hold systematically and separately, in extending periods of duration. Both are taught up close and personal, retrieve object in hand and not thrown or even placed on the ground until they are competent. Most dogs object to sitting and holding calmly at first, so their initial sessions would be done in blocks of count of one, then two, then three, etc. I don't use a lot of food at this stage as you run the risk of adding overexcitement which can result in mouthing or aborting the task to get the food.

When first teaching take, a beginner mistake I see often is that the handler does it for the dog, ie, dog does not move toward retrieve object, it moves to the dog's mouth, long after the dog should be reaching for it.
When teaching hold, some dogs get loose mouthed or spit the object out.
Both of these can be helped with the use of opposition reflex; in the first, restrain the dog (with the collar) from the object, in the second, pull the object (gently) while in the dog's mouth so the dog must take a firm grip or lose it.
Sit and stay while holding, stand & stay, walk while holding, beside you, and then moving toward you while you walk backwards, sit, sit in front, turn, are all small steps in the journey.

What is a forced retrieve? There is a lot of controversy surrounding this practice, and the methods used to achieve it, which are often avoidance of discomfort by putting mouth on an object. While it's usually not necessary to inflict pain, and I prefer not to, it is necessary to build layers of competency through proofing. This in turn produces confidence in both the dog and the handler.
After the dog has learned to take and hold in close proximity with the object in hand, one of the first proofs I teach is to place, not throw, the dumbell on the floor, three or four feet in front of you and about 6 inches from a treat. When told to take it, most dogs will go for the food, which I don't correct, verbally or physcially, I simply stop them with a leash and encourage them to pick up the dumbell until they comply. Progressions include picking the dumbell up beside the treat, left or right of it, and finally behind it, and here I do deliver treats variably.

As I add distance and the jump, any error such as failure to retrieve, hitting with feet, or mouthing the object, are immediately addressed and the dog given clear information on the preferred action.

The jump is taught by having the dog step over the jump set only a couple inches high to a placed and not thrown dumbell, a couple of feet on the other side of the jump, making returning over the jump the logical option.
Many points are lost because the dog has not been taught to front with the object, so this is taught as separate exercise, & then folded in.

George Bailey

[DeidreM]

Whew. Beautiful. A lot of systematic work involved but doable.
had to teach my last guide dog to retrieve because she'd been proofed against it!I taught it much the way you describe only I did not proof to the degree you would for comp ob work. She did however pic up anything I dropped as the final result of the other stages of training, mouth to hand, duration on hold, etc.
It really is interesting how different it is to ask a dog to hold on something for us as opposed to simply retrieving for it's own purposes as you Julie put it so clearly. I'm introducing this to my new guide who now understands it's what I want- it's ok to mouth and hold on whatever I present.. keys, sock, leather lead, phone... she's now eager to do it since it is part of a training game. We've only just begun. I too am teaching it the SATS way by defining parts of the mouth, open and closed. I love your asking your dogs to move into your hand with bridge and _, quite clever.

[DeidreM]

Thanks Julie for writing that up. I just embarked on a new training challenge for my new guide and myself.
There are drop in classes for novice/open and open/utility that I attended last night for the first time. With my guide off harness, I am in the lead, which I have to say there is no choice about, it's the lay of the land, the rules.
I look forward to mastering all the exercises as best I can being blind. I adore precision and am less than patient with sloppy. This goes for the both of us, the dog and human.

[DeidreM]

I seemed to have missed this post when you wrote it.
I'm interested in working on recall and drops on recall, anything to
quicken my dog's response to me especially under distraction. I hope next week we can do some of the work you describe with the drop and stay. I think giving the animal a form to folow helps with eliminating more irratic behavior such as running off! Am I dreaming? At this point, my dog will race to a station target and put her head down on her two crossed front paws. She will wait there indefinitely if I am present. Not present, we'll see. I've started leaving her at the top of the stairs wen I go down two flors to the basement to do laundry. By the time I come back, she is standing in the spot I've left her or I find her curled up on her bed. Well, ten minutes or more ....
In the two comp OB classes last night all the dogs were focused on what they were doing though some did not perform well, so to speak. All the attendees respected the others dogs space though no one seemed at all uptight about moving about. It was most unusual to not see antsy dogs dragging their owners over to greet another dog. I'm sure cut loose they would have changed gears if released to do so, but that was not our goal for the evening. I have to hand it to the handlers for having the ability to keep their dogs calm during transitions with all that was going on including all the coming and going.
I hope Julie that you find this next admission funny as I now do.
My eagerness really made me cocky last night. When the teacher was doing
a moving stand with someone, when they were finished, I asked if I could try
it. The teacher said it was pretty advanced and not to get ahead of myself.
I said I think she can do it. The teacher was taken a bit aback so she said
ok, do you have a cue for stand? At that point Louise was sitting and I
didn't know a way to get her to stand without asking her to step forward - usually I just ask for a butt up and target her forward a step. Well that is
not how the exercise will go. I am laughing to myself now about how I had
pictured it in my mind... me heeling Louise across the room, stopping with
her in heel, telling her to stay, me moving away, the teacher coming forward
to examine her. It would be a synch, I was sure of that! Don't they say that
imagining a performance in your mind prior to the performance insures better
performance? I'm still laughing. Next class, I'll bite my lip if such a
remark dares to rise up in me.
No matter, I learned what I needed to do and learned a way to do it as
well. Lou now knows what her chest is by name and will push into my hand
with her chest. Voila, her hind end popped up, no lure, just a few sardines
in her food bowl for a after dinner treat.

Deidre

[Dansgrizz]

Deidre I must say having the dog hold your cell phone is too much lol ;) get a hip holster or some pockets. It sounds like your training is really going quite good. So hears something interesting. A stand is something a dog does....whenever really.... So how do you name that? I'm trying to teach grizz a show stack right now and he does ok. I'm going to start having people to come by and inspect him, his excitement should be a challenge. Also I think you feeding sardines is awesome, I use the ones in olive oil. Good for the coat, protein, and the natural vitamins from the fish is good too. What kind of dogs are in your obedience class Deidre?

[DeidreM]

Here are a few tips to start: teach your dog the names of his body parts and have him target against your hand. Foot, head up, chin, nose, paws, feet, hips, belly, tail and butt just to name a few. You can teach chest targeting tight up against your hand and teach a butt or up target. The chest target will bring the nind end up even without the butt up target - doesn't hurt to emphasize the hind up though. For my dog, she came with a steady, mostly reinforced by me teaching her body targeting her hips which she absolutley loves. One of the problems youmight get is the turning around. Be steady yourself and don't leave much room for wiggling, meaning don't encourage it. Honestly, she stands for exam just because I taught her her parts and she knows it's an exercise and loves it. Also before feeding her I ask her if she is skinny or fat and she comes running and moves her body between my two hands stopping near the midriff for the final verdict! Julie can I ask for that in the ring?
Anyway go from sit to stand to make sure the dog will move into each position quickly.
Let me know if this helps.

[George Bailey]

Everybody's instinct is to hoist the dog up by the gut into a stand, and many dogs default erroneously to sit because it has been overemphasized, and stand not even named. If you do a chest and top of hips target, you get a much more participatory response from the dog. We also tell the dogs they will be approached and touched, for instance, as in the novice obedience exercise, on the top of head, shoulders, and hips. An extension target can be used initially, it's less personal. Teach the dog to stand with no forward motion.

So White does this really cute thing with Jimmy when he is eating, and she got it just by my telling her she looked pretty and bridging her. She sits with her back to his chair and throws her head back--- and stays that way. It's just a position change, they do them without us teaching them, we are merely cuing the situation.

George Bailey

[George Bailey]

Etta J working on the dumbell, photo by Kayce Cover
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m165/jmkinsey/PICT0947.jpg

[George Bailey]

I'm working on trying to clean up So White's dumbell hold; she chomps while moving, and while she is still and presenting in front, she now has it down to a few forehead muscles flexing and an occasional roll, I will still lose points.

It's important to break exercises down to the simplest components and work on each one separately, so, I've taken prey out of the equation by not having her work with a moving object, in other words, not throwing the dumbell for her. I am allowing only a few pick ups, usually with her 5 or 6 feet away, on a stay, then placing a dumbell in between us, so that all she is required to do is pick it up and come to front, pretty much in one fluid movement. If I practice the retrieve over the jump, she is placed on the other side of the jump in a stay, holding the dumbell, with only enough room to bounce over into a front. We do lots of fronts from different locations in relationship to me, which helps her be able to generalize and perfect her knowledge of this skill. I know that when the adrenalin is pumping when she gets to go snatch the white thing in the ring, I will consider myself lucky if some of this work helps her not fly back and take a flying leap at me, knocking me on my keister in an AKC ring.

We do a lot of hold exercises (of which she was initially resistant) with various materials in stay position. While working with some beginners the other night, she was competent in holding both a straw and a piece of paper, calmly while I put a little resistance on it. Next I did a disposable chopstick and she chomped it right in half. This is okay as it's an opportunity for me to tell her that's not what I want, and we continued until she could hold the remains of the chopstick. My beginner students laughed at us.:)

George Bailey

[George Bailey]

I've done very little utility work while concentrating on open, and thought I would update my journey to an open title with So White, and now Etta, who doesn't have a CD yet, but is mine now.

I just realized last night that we've gone through anticipation--- dropping on her own or just dropping without coming, coming without being called, not understanding that down means all body parts, not just your chest. These are all common stages that dogs go through on the way to understanding. We are now working on distance and will have to introduce new surfaces and locations, change up the environmental stimuli, but we finally have a bang it on the ground drop with a quick head down, thanks to many chin targets. I don't call my dogs into front off the drop until they really understand the drop, then work it separately, as get to me is what they really want to do.
Instead, I walk into them and take the reinforcement to them, sometimes tossing a treat or toy behind them.

Since my last writing, So White can bring the dumbell back to front from a static position without chomping, but with a throw, she still likes to flex her forehead muscles and sneak one in. I'm going to go back to a placed pickup between us. Because of this, I haven't done much work on the retrieve over the high jump as yet.

So White 'gets' the stays and we're building the out of sight ones.

Etta is one of the few I've trained who doesn't chomp and is a pleasant change to work with. She does a very nice broad jump and a fast down but has very little duration on it yet. Her novice work is getting tight; she's starting to be a pretty good little partner. I'm debating just skipping rally and showing her in ob instead and wish we had more opportunities for fun matches around here.

George Bailey